Ragnarokkr Metal Apocalypse 2014

[Palabra de Dios]

I like to think I'm obsessed with metal, but I hardly know half of this lineup. I had never heard of Picture before their announcement, and even some bands whose name I know (Axxion, Black Death, Night Demon, Visigoth), I've never really listened. I think there'd be too much unfamiliarity to come up for this. And unfortunately for Odin, who I know has a lot of heart in this, it lacks a clear headliner that would put this festival "on the map" like the Keep it True! fest it is clearly designed after.

 

[dcowboys311]

I like to think I'm obsessed with metal, but I hardly know half of this lineup. I had never heard of Picture before their announcement, and even some bands whose name I know (Axxion, Black Death, Night Demon, Visigoth), I've never really listened. I think there'd be too much unfamiliarity to come up for this. And unfortunately for Odin, who I know has a lot of heart in this, it lacks a clear headliner that would put this festival "on the map" like the Keep it True! fest it is clearly designed after.

Don't worry...I regularly get teased on these boards for listening to 'obscure' stuff and I had never heard of Picture either, and most of the smaller bands I knew only because I post on the Ragnarokkr board...

 

[Diabolik]

I like to think I'm obsessed with metal, but I hardly know half of this lineup. I had never heard of Picture before their announcement, and even some bands whose name I know (Axxion, Black Death, Night Demon, Visigoth), I've never really listened. I think there'd be too much unfamiliarity to come up for this. And unfortunately for Odin, who I know has a lot of heart in this, it lacks a clear headliner that would put this festival "on the map" like the Keep it True! fest it is clearly designed after.

Grim Reaper and Riot have headlined / co-headlined Keep it True in the past.

 

[nomisofsiman]

Don't worry...I regularly get teased on these boards for listening to 'obscure' stuff and I had never heard of Picture either

Most didn't. It was indeed a real headscratcher that I believe they sorta regretted booking. Good band from what I have heard from them but definitely unknown outside of a handful of people.

 

[nomisofsiman]

Grim Reaper and Riot have headlined / co-headlined Keep it True in the past.

Yeah I would say this is the best year for headliners.

 

[Jasonic]

I think this year lineup wise is indeed solid for representing the current state of true traditional metal.
I really do.
It's just not going to be an easy sell based on the overall package.

There have been many attempts at full traditional metal festivals in the past.

A traditional fest is simply not going to draw a ton.

That doesn't make it a bad festival by any means. Main thing is staying within budget.

Though I will stop here because then we get into other discussions which will make this extend 20 pages.

 

[Palabra de Dios]

But Keep it True just seems to get bands that I've heard of, for whatever reason. Atlantean Kodex, Raven, Jag Panzer, Dantesco, Satan, Solitude Aeturnus, Onslaught, Laaz Rockit, Sabbat, Twisted Tower Dire, Artillery, Enforcer, Heathen, Doomsword, Tokyo Blade, Rigor Mortis, Omen, Anacrusis, Fifth Angel, Tygers of Pan Tang, RAM, Candlemass, Metalucifer.

All bands I've heard of, and tons of which would make me drive up and see a fest with just one or a handful of. I've heard it was like pulling teeth convincing the promoter to add a thrash band or a doom band, but come on - their genre kissing cousins to the "true metal" subgenre already. And they sell tickets. Just look at MDF, which is an unfair comparison NOW, but MDF was once the same size as Ragnarokkr, in venue of roughly the same capacity. With only one stage. And also, only death/grind bands. It wasn't until they expanded out and spent some money on bigger names (rather than loading their lineup with shit like Magrudergrind and Amoebic Dysentery and XXX Maniak), bigger names and a few more genres that they saw that success.

Ragnarokkr doesn't have to follow the MDF model and become an "every metal genre at the same time" festival. But within the "true heavy metal" subgenre, some monetary attention at some of these bands that I think all have some sort of "name" draw, only picked from Keep it True! lineups would do better for guys like me who aren't only into obscure true metal bands. In fact, as much as I like it it's likely the genre I look into least for new bands since I prefer black metal and doom metal so much more, and more progressive sounds as well.

Didn't Odin blow his wad on Picture? I'm sure they're a decent band, but it's like the dude from Rites of Darkness blowing it all on Zemial and forgetting the other awesome bands he was supposed to give plane tickets and hotels to.

 

[nomisofsiman]

But Keep it True just seems to get bands that I've heard of, for whatever reason. Atlantean Kodex, Raven, Jag Panzer, Dantesco, Satan, Solitude Aeturnus, Onslaught, Laaz Rockit, Sabbat, Twisted Tower Dire, Artillery, Enforcer, Heathen, Doomsword, Tokyo Blade, Rigor Mortis, Omen, Anacrusis, Fifth Angel, Tygers of Pan Tang, RAM, Candlemass, Metalucifer.

All bands I've heard of, and tons of which would make me drive up and see a fest with just one or a handful of. I've heard it was like pulling teeth convincing the promoter to add a thrash band or a doom band, but come on - their genre kissing cousins to the "true metal" subgenre already. And they sell tickets. Just look at MDF, which is an unfair comparison NOW, but MDF was once the same size as Ragnarokkr, in venue of roughly the same capacity. With only one stage. And also, only death/grind bands. It wasn't until they expanded out and spent some money on bigger names (rather than loading their lineup with shit like Magrudergrind and Amoebic Dysentery and XXX Maniak), bigger names and a few more genres that they saw that success.

Ragnarokkr doesn't have to follow the MDF model and become an "every metal genre at the same time" festival. But within the "true heavy metal" subgenre, some monetary attention at some of these bands that I think all have some sort of "name" draw, only picked from Keep it True! lineups would do better for guys like me who aren't only into obscure true metal bands. In fact, as much as I like it it's likely the genre I look into least for new bands since I prefer black metal and doom metal so much more, and more progressive sounds as well.

Didn't Odin blow his wad on Picture? I'm sure they're a decent band, but it's like the dude from Rites of Darkness blowing it all on Zemial and forgetting the other awesome bands he was supposed to give plane tickets and hotels to.

The problem because it's still pretty much in its infancy is selling tickets and I don't know how it's feasible to get much better acts at a place like Reggies where the max is 500 I believe.

It didn't take persuasion to get thrash; I'm pretty sure Odin always wanted thrash. It's doom that takes a lot of convincing. Argus is arguably one of the most anticipated bands of the fest and it took a lot to get them on.

Yes I'm sure with flights and everything, too much money was spent on Picture. I really wish that hadn't happened and gotten better acts. Having said that, having Riot and Grim Reaper are two quality headliners.

Btw, Omen played the fest; unfortunately they weren't all that great live. A lot of the others, the fest got close to getting but didn't come through.

 

[Diabolik]

Picture didn't blow his wad. he had a sponsor helping with a small cost and used some of the budget as well. I agree with not being the wisest of bands to get.

Doom didn't go over last year at all...Gates of Slumber cleared the room. Sure they were against Borrowed Time and Winterhawk but even when the announcement came on...no one was that excited about it.


There is a few thrash bands...Idolatry and Possessor are thrash. Another one and a speed metal band are also being added this week.

Dogbane are doomish as well.

there is actually variety if you sample each one. But I get what you are saying.

Also...death metal draws way much better than traditional metal in the states. So you will always get a huge crowd. Even big trad bands like Omen didnt sell it out. Manilla Road didn't even sell out Reggies and they are kings of the trad scene for some.

 

[Palabra de Dios]

I hope you don't take me as knocking the trad scene. I dig what it's all about. The old school DIY ethics, the retro imagery, and the appreciation for the evolution of metal is something I highly admire. But I think where I'm at is simply overwhelmed by a lineup packed with bands I haven't heard a note from. So when I look at a fest like MDF, it's the opposite. Some of those are bands that I've wanted to see for years. It makes the decision a little easier. I could only see myself having a good time if I was more familiar with the bands. Yes, Grim Reaper and Riot are solid bands. And even though I'd say Thundersteel is among the five best traditional metal albums ever made, it still might not be enough for me.

Dogbane is a stupid band name, but I trust they're better than their name.

 

[Diabolik]

I hope you don't take me as knocking the trad scene. I dig what it's all about. The old school DIY ethics, the retro imagery, and the appreciation for the evolution of metal is something I highly admire. But I think where I'm at is simply overwhelmed by a lineup packed with bands I haven't heard a note from. So when I look at a fest like MDF, it's the opposite. Some of those are bands that I've wanted to see for years. It makes the decision a little easier. I could only see myself having a good time if I was more familiar with the bands. Yes, Grim Reaper and Riot are solid bands. And even though I'd say Thundersteel is among the five best traditional metal albums ever made, it still might not be enough for me.

Dogbane is a stupid band name, but I trust they're better than their name.

I look at MDF the same way...litterally 100's of bands I have never heard of. Same goes with any genre you are not familiar with. I don't take anything you say as knocking the fest. There are tons of smaller bands this time around. Lot's are new bands who in a year or so will get more known I am sure but due to budget and who was available it was what worked this time around...the issue with these older type bands is that they all think they deserve to be paid 10,000 bucks to play but draw 10 people. After you weed out those types you are left with newer bands who want to play and will put on a great show.

 

[Jasonic]

Doom didn't go over last year at all...Gates of Slumber cleared the room. Sure they were against Borrowed Time and Winterhawk but even when the announcement came on...no one was that excited about it.

LOL - as usual, you fail miserably at seeing the big picture.
Since I am a nice guy I won't expose the EXTREME benefit having Gates did for the fest. What I will state though is what, Gates were announced 2 weeks before the fest???? Was way too late to be a game changer for anyone. They were a replacement band with a good name recognition.

Dark Mirror and Vindicator and Viking and Blood Feast cleared the rooms as well. Does that mean that the fest should avoid thrash?????

Once again, stop being so damn nearsighted to benefit your own self interests.

 

[AeonicSlumber]

I look at MDF the same way...litterally 100's of bands I have never heard of. Same goes with any genre you are not familiar with. I don't take anything you say as knocking the fest. There are tons of smaller bands this time around. Lot's are new bands who in a year or so will get more known I am sure but due to budget and who was available it was what worked this time around...the issue with these older type bands is that they all think they deserve to be paid 10,000 bucks to play but draw 10 people. After you weed out those types you are left with newer bands who want to play and will put on a great show.

To be fair though, MDF is like 40-60 bands and MANY of them are very well known (shit, Phil Anselmo played last year - let's be serious here). Hence, why it brings in like 3-5 k people over one weekend. The smattering of lesser known hardcore and grind bands is really just a bonus.

Not to talk shit on an event you clearly enjoy going to, but this fest is full of bands most (IE, not a lineup "big" enough to draw over a thousand people) people wouldn't care about under normal circumstances.

 

[Diabolik]

LOL - as usual, you fail miserably at seeing the big picture.
Since I am a nice guy I won't expose the EXTREME benefit having Gates did for the fest. What I will state though is what, Gates were announced 2 weeks before the fest???? Was way too late to be a game changer for anyone. They were a replacement band with a good name recognition.

Dark Mirror and Vindicator and Viking and Blood Feast cleared the rooms as well. Does that mean that the fest should avoid thrash?????

Once again, stop being so damn nearsighted to benefit your own self interests.

Gates were not announced 2 weeks before the fest it was over a month because it took a month to get banners made. They had zero impact for the fest as well.

Blood Feast and Viking had a crowd there for them. sorry..I have pics as well.

How am I nearsighted...many people have commented about the draw that Gates had on that room that day. Sorry. I know that was the band you got in the fest so you were like a proud papa but face it...it was a name act but they were just a band no one but like 10 people cared to see.

there is doom again this year...Argus ( who you know I pused to get on the show ) and Dogbane. You also know who was also going to play but it didn't pan out so it isn't like any genre is ignored.

 

[Diabolik]

To be fair though, MDF is like 40-60 bands and MANY of them are very well known (shit, Phil Anselmo played last year - let's be serious here). Hence, why it brings in like 3-5 k people over one weekend. The smattering of lesser known hardcore and grind bands is really just a bonus.

Not to talk shit on an event you clearly enjoy going to, but this fest is full of bands most (IE, not a lineup "big" enough to draw over a thousand people) people wouldn't care about under normal circumstances.

Oh exactly...like I said in a different post...death metal is always a draw...even the bands I haven't heard of yet playing have fanbases here. There is a reason MDF is "the" fest in the states. They did it right.
Every fest here in the states is different and offers something different. When people say they never heard of the band playing any fest..it isnt hard to go to youtube and check them out. While this fest isn't aimed at drawing in 3,000 people it is more of a smaller fest. Lots of the people who come each year know most of the bands or are willing to check them out. It works out well and early this year a band like Ashbury who no one knew went over huge and have sold a lot of CD's and now have played 2 big fest in Germany and Greece because of playing Ragnarokkr. While it doesn't come close to having the visability of MDF or even ProgPower...it is just a small fest that is aimed at a target crowd. There are pics up at my facebook you can see from my link in my lower part of the post here. It averages about 200 -250 people. Two rooms / two stages.

 

[Jasonic]

Gates were not announced 2 weeks before the fest it was over a month because it took a month to get banners made. They had zero impact for the fest as well.

Blood Feast and Viking had a crowd there for them. sorry..I have pics as well.

How am I nearsighted...many people have commented about the draw that Gates had on that room that day. Sorry. I know that was the band you got in the fest so you were like a proud papa but face it...it was a name act but they were just a band no one but like 10 people cared to see.

there is doom again this year...Argus ( who you know I pused to get on the show ) and Dogbane. You also know who was also going to play but it didn't pan out so it isn't like any genre is ignored.

Ha, well, this was bothering me so I went back through my conversations with Gates. They were confirmed I believe on April 10, so to split hairs, it was 3 1/2 weeks.

The reason I say you are nearsighted about it is because when doom is brought up in general, your go to response is , "Doom doesn't draw. See what happened when Gates play"???

Gates were what they were. A last minute Midwest replacement band.
They play Chicago frequently. It was more of a band to benefit those already going. You knew this as well going in, yet you use it as your go to card whenever you want to slam doom as a whole.

You should be smart enough to know and see for yourself what doom has done for many other festivals, even those here in the US.

Anyhow, yes, ARGUS is gonna kick serious amounts of ass.
That's one band who just keep getting better.

 

[Jasonic]

Oh, and to compare to MDF?
Not fair at all. They completely went outside their own niche to get the crowds they do today. Did it work? Of course!

Yeah, if Odin chooses to do that, then it may work.

Though if you wanna "Keep it True" you are gonna max out around 300 to 400. Just gotta work within a budget that supports that.

 

[AeonicSlumber]

Oh, and to compare to MDF?
Not fair at all. They completely went outside their own niche to get the crowds they do today. Did it work? Of course!

Nah, MDF was never a death metal only festival. It never really had a niche. Prog bands like Alarum and Cynic, and also a lot of hardcore, crossover, powerviolence, and grind bands have been booked even before the fest started getting the numbers it did. In fact, there were quite a few years where people would bitch to the promoters on their forum about changing the name. This was long before 2007 when the fest started bringing in "big" bands.

 

[dcowboys311]

Alarum wasn't booked until a few years in, after the fest was established, Cynic even later. The first few years were p. much exclusively death and grind. PdD even said he was comparing Ragnarokkr to the first few years of MDF, before they expanded, so it's really a non-issue.

 

[AeonicSlumber]

Yeah it's true that the first 2 or so editions were a bit more "niche" (I don't entirely agree though, I remember even those got shit for not being death metal enough). The point is though, even MDF 1 was ostensibly a Suffocation reunion show - there's more "relevance" in that than a band like Riot - sorry to say.