smy1
Member
Hm, not really, no. To me it's all the same in the mixing department. Then again, I never mix superfast brutal Deathcore with Blastbeats and tons of doublebassdrums.
Realization: Metal engineers control low-end best?
- Thread starter Ermz
- Start date
Hm, not really, no. To me it's all the same in the mixing department. Then again, I never mix superfast brutal Deathcore with Blastbeats and tons of doublebassdrums.
Pedro Teixeira
Member
I agree with you Ermz and also agree with mostly everyone else, controling the low-end in fast metal need to be much more cirurgical and clinical than in most genres, since the amount of speed be it bass or kick or wtv will generate much low end than having a kick punching 1 or 2 times on each bar, that's why my favourite mixes all come from rock or from a more "rock driven" metal. Btw Ermz, have you listened to Karnivool's Sound Awake in your Opals? Man that must translate soooo well, one of my favourite mixes from last year for sure.
kaotic_order
Inski
Dunno, I'm definitely not talking about Slatecore 
Let's assume we're actually still tracking drums and real guitar amps.
Let's assume we're actually still tracking drums and real guitar amps.
Morgan C
MAX LOUD PRESETS¯\(°_o)/¯
Dunno, I'm definitely not talking about Slatecore
Let's assume we're actually still tracking drums and real guitar amps.
Either drums are real and dynamic, and thus uncontrolled and boomy in the lowend, or they're replaced (even just the kicks), and very clinical and precise but no longer dynamic at ALL. The only exception I can think of would be STD, which I think has totally natural drums, and even then, most of the bass is coming from the bass guitar not the kicks. Any other metal album with real kicks just has a muddy lowend (I still LOVE the mixes, but you just can't get that clinical precise lowend with natural drums in metal).
gabriel g.
Member
Haha I´m mixing the exact oposite way (metal/rock)
In rock the bass didnt play that fast so the realy low end is ok.
In metal the bass plays sometimes 16th at 200bpm so this would sound very strange (because of the long sustain of the strings) with 50-60hz
A kick drum has a very short impulse so the 60hz is working at 16th or 24th at 200bpm
OT:
I would say no. A good engineer knows how to handle low-end in every style of music
James-Doolan
Member
I would not say metal engineers are better at mixing low end they just take a different approach as the genre demands it. Trust me dance/country/whaterevr genre mix engineers obsess about mixing low end as much as metal guys also id say difficulty wise its all relative i mean it might not seem all that difficult to mix the low end in a killer house track to you now but then again go and do it you would be in an entirly different genre that you are not used to (maybe you are just giving an example)
Mixing the low end 'well' on any genre takes a damm lot of expierence and skill. Just my thoughts anyways.
you would be in an entirly different genre that you are not used to (maybe you are just giving an example) Mixing the low end 'well' on any genre takes a damm lot of expierence and skill. Just my thoughts anyways.
Andy Sneap
Metal Guru
i agree, you hear alot of "rock" guys get into trouble when they try and mix faster stuff. Its certainly one of the hardest things to get right.
CatharsisStudios
trcksngsrpbngs
- Jun 25, 2008
- 2,198
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drew_drummer
Dancefap
Depends. If you get someone used to mixing 180-200bpm speed metal, and you get them to mix something a bit slower and a bit more droney... and they used the same production techniques they do with speed metal.. I don't think it would sound very good.
I reckon the slower the music, the more you can afford to have bass heavy mixes; still controlled, but heavier. The faster you go, you need to tighten it up so it doesn't turn to mush. I'm not always into that sound though, tbh. I like to feel the bass too.
I reckon the slower the music, the more you can afford to have bass heavy mixes; still controlled, but heavier. The faster you go, you need to tighten it up so it doesn't turn to mush. I'm not always into that sound though, tbh. I like to feel the bass too.
plague_rider
Coffee
it seems to be more based on the speed of the music... too much uncontrolled bass = fart
Some of the best bass sounds (low-end in general) for me are In Flames... their bass sounds are so tight (clayman obv)...
Andy's work on the Doomsday had some epic yet tight-as-a-nun's-badger low end on it
Some of the best bass sounds (low-end in general) for me are In Flames... their bass sounds are so tight (clayman obv)...
Andy's work on the Doomsday had some epic yet tight-as-a-nun's-badger low end on it
sprack
Thread Killer
I agree that mixing metal is probably the most difficult of the juggling acts, but I'm not 100% certain they are the best at the low end. It certainly hasn't stood out in mixes until the last 7-8yrs. It's only recently that the bass is doing something besides following the rhythm guitar and the kick has no depth just compressed flat and hard. There are exceptions. But listen to Thriller, Prodigy's Fat of the Land, the new Lady Gaga, Depeche Mode's Violator, any Tower of Power, Stanley Clarke or Parliament, George Strait with Lee Sklar on bass. There's some genius in there too.
lolzgreg
Cereal Shipping Sneapster
I definitely see people who are more comfortable tracking rock music having a big issue in the tracking stage as well. Recording kick drums and bass drums with too much low end that are focused too low in the frequency spectrum, as well as choosing rounder tones that would just work for different production types could be a killer.
Andy, what was the most difficult mix you've done, and what was holding you back?
GarethSE
New Metal Member
- Jul 5, 2008
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what
and meh, i am beginning to care less about controlling subs and more about making them punch you in the chest to a ridiculous degree, which I guess takes a fair amount of control haha.
Andy Sneap
Metal Guru
its usually pressure from labels that gets in my way more than anything. I work so much better when stupid deadlines aren't forced. I've literally had it where there is 30 min to get the cds to the airport and you know damn well another day wont make a difference.
Kazrog
Kazrog, Inc.
I agree 100%. Those same engineers, though, criticize extreme metal mixes (including yours) for not having "enough" low end. The few who have attempted to mix extreme metal bands proceed to massively fuck it up and make muddy, horrible sounding records, which they take a strange amount of pride in.
The issue (that I'm sure you're well aware of) is physics. The premise is simple: low frequencies are slow, so if you try to make them occur with fast attacks, you will be fighting a war with physics, which of course you cannot ever win.
It's easy to do the math: calculate Hz vs. BPM vs. kick drum subdivisions for a given song. Or just use your ears... if you want more bass, play slower songs, period. Doom metal FTW if you want to blow up subs.
It's easy to do the math: calculate Hz vs. BPM vs. kick drum subdivisions for a given song. Or just use your ears... if you want more bass, play slower songs, period. Doom metal FTW if you want to blow up subs.
i suck at math, just give me the numbers: how low could i technically get with 16th note double kicks at 220bpm?
not that i'm trying to set up a mixing rule or anything, just curious about what the physics are.
One of my biggest ambitions of late has been to inject as much tight sub low into metal mixes without destroying the clarity. It's quite interesting. I find myself battling less the subs, and more-so the crossover low-end build up like between overheads and kick, or room and kick, or guitar and bass. I've really gone off high passing overheads drastically, because you can get so much of a fuller sound by really opening up the low-end on them, but then the trouble moves to controlling the mid-bass build-up during double kick sections.
It's been really fun, trying to find this midpoint in between rock and metal mixing.
It's been really fun, trying to find this midpoint in between rock and metal mixing.
Jackal_Strain
Sigurd Løberg
I've been doing a lot of automation in regard to the low end on kickdrums lately. I like to make the kick sound big and fat, but when the drummer plays 16ths at 180+bpm I find that I often need to turn down the amounts of lows that i would frequently use in single hits.
