Recording Crappy Bands

[Matt Smith]

A local band wants me to do a demo for them. The guitarist is good, but I can't stand the stuff other than that...I still might do it though, for the money and experience. I'm not sure if they'll be comfortable playing to a click or not, so if not, what's the best way to comp drums? I mean, what if there's a good take with a completely terrible second verse, but if I try to drop the second verse in from another take, it turns out that the other take is noticeably slower or faster since there was no click involved?

I'm sure several of you have been in this predicament, so any advice?

 

[Kazrog]

If they won't record to a click - don't bother. My two cents anyway.

 

[Ermz]

If they can't play to a click, I'd chance to say that they aren't very good in playing consistently anyhow, which makes it not worth your bother.

 

[Lopes]

I've had bands want me to record them, but I always say "No click = no record," and many decide not to work with me because survey says:

3. "It kills the feel of the music."

2. "We don't want to sound like robots."

1. "What's a click?"

 

[James Murphy]

I've had bands want me to record them, but I always say "No click = no record," and many decide not to work with me because survey says:

3. "It kills the feel of the music."

2. "We don't want to sound like robots."

1. "What's a click?"

Translation:
3. "Our drummer can't keep time."

2. "We're too lazy to not play sloppy."

1. "I rode the short bus to school."

 

[commandante]

3. "It kills the feel of the music."

2. "We don't want to sound like robots."

1. "What's a click?"

Do you seriously get these answers? I am trying to play to a click, even if I am playing alone, these days so I can get my timing better and playing tighter. And I don't see what can be wrong with that?

 

[Ermz]

As musicians they should have practiced along to metronomes anyway. That was one of the very first things I'd learned when I started guitar. The inability to keep time when playing is just something that shouldn't be.

 

[Genius Gone Insane]

I kind of disagree with you guys. Matt, if you're like a lot of us, you could probably use more experience, even if it's bad experience. Hell, if you're getting paid for it, why not? I'm sure you're going to learn other bad habits from this band that you can be weary of down the line. And I'm sure that experience would be valuable.

That being said, why don't you give the band a metronome to plug in their PA to practice to? If it's only a couple song demo, then it shouldn't take but a few practices for them to get tight. Worst case, print this page out and hand it to them as a motivator.

 

[Exsanguis]

Go for it. It'll be an even better learning experience if they don't record to a click. Have the drummer play an entire good take, so you won't need to edit it. If worse comes to worse and his tempo is all over the place, clap your hands or otherwise conduct him from the control room(just make sure he can see you, or you look like an idiot to everyone else). I once had to record a band without a click, and ended up tapping in the tempo for each individual bar, as they all of the sudden decided to put sequenced patterns and loops in their music(these guys were complete retards) and had to be snapped to the bar. Well, it took forever, I was about to kill them and myself, but I got through it, made the money, was proud of the result, and learned a TON from the experience. Have fun with it.

 

[Matt Smith]

Awesome, thanks for the killer advice. You guys are the best.
Well, the good news is that they play live all the time, so they should be at least semi-tight if they're competent in the least.
I'll post mixes if I end up doing it. It depends on what they want; it's not worth pushing our album back for, but if it's a 3-song deal or less I might try to sqeeze it in.

Thanks again.

 

[Daunt]

I think that their demo should not be a demonstration of your editing skills. The band has to take it's responsibility of the playing. If they can play it live, they can play it in the studio!

 

[Enmity]

Tell them that it is much easier to record to a click and the end product sounds a lot better. If they record to a click your job will be a lot easier and you'll not have to worry about cutting and pasting drum tracks.

Come up with a click track in advance, give it to them and have the drummer play to it when they're rehearsing to come into the studio. Try and give them a month of rehearsal otherwise the job might be painful. I've had first hand experience as to what happens when an unprepared or sloppy band steps up to the plate for recording and its not pretty. It took 2 full days to record 5 drum tracks since the drummer couldn't play to the click. We ended up saying "Screw it" halfway through day 2 and told the drummer to just play himself. He played the songs and bailed. We came back the next day, went through the songs and he played them at completely wrong tempos / changing tempos. The lead guitar player struggled to keep up with the changes in tempo and we had to scrap two tracks simply because they were played too fast. The band recorded 3 tracks and the mixing process was painful. The feel of the music was gone because of the drummer's wandering meter. Thank goodness the band didn't have to pay for the studio time because it would've been a big waste of money. The main man behind the board was definitely pissed though. It turned out to be just a big waste of a 4 hours a day for a week.

Also, something to keep in mind. Your name is going to be on the product too, so ask yourself, would you settle for not using a click with your own band? The recording will be an indication of your abilities, as well as the band's so if they're going all over the place tempo-wise, you look bad as well.

 

[martyfireball]

I've yet to record a band with a click (except my own - which we've ALWAYS used). The bands I'm working with are local small gigging bands of all different levels of experience, and generally I suggest we use a click but either they've never played to one (and would take ages sorting out the tempo's and them actually LEARNING to play to it) or they don't FEEL they need to. I know it would make editing easier for me, but at this level I gotta go with what I'm offered and just get the experience.

 

[DIOBOLIC5150]

If they can't keep time, they don't need a demo. They suck.

 

[~BURNY~]

Tight playing is 80% of a great sounding song. You can do the best engineering work possible, if the band suck, the sound will suck aswell because of the crappy playing.
Plus young musicians should now that only great experienced musicians can play right without a click

 

[unsilpauly]

I've yet to record a band with a click (except my own - which we've ALWAYS used). The bands I'm working with are local small gigging bands of all different levels of experience, and generally I suggest we use a click but either they've never played to one (and would take ages sorting out the tempo's and them actually LEARNING to play to it) or they don't FEEL they need to. I know it would make editing easier for me, but at this level I gotta go with what I'm offered and just get the experience.

i agree totally man. it would be cool if every local band had perfect timing and feel, but hey then they wouldnt be a local band, they'd be signed and andy or james would get the gig recording them, lol. so luckily there are a few bands left to get some experience recording. only experience is really gonna make you a better engineer, so the more the merrier. there is also a certain amount of satisfaction to be had by making a totally crappy band sound a hundred times better than they really are, at least for me anyway. then when we get good bands we wont be totally flailing and we will have some experience dealing with bands in the studio which is priceless.
so while i agree that it would be easier, tighter, better if bands played to a click, thats not always realistic. and for a local band who just wants to play out at local gigs and is gonna break up in a year and a half anyway, i think a quick fast demo "is what it is" and gets the job done.
for the record i do know the importance of a click and record and practice to one pretty regularly and i always tell bands they should pick that route as well. hopefully they will and the next time i record them they will be tight, but probably not, lol. what a bummer but hey id rather be engineering and getting better than not. thats just my opinion.

 

[Ermz]

What I don't understand is why they would opt not to use a click for any other reason than 'natural dynamics'. If they're a band that appreciate that sort of sound, and can live with mistakes in the recording, then that's cool, I dig it. But what the hell is so hard about playing along to those obnoxious clicks on PT, Cubase etc.? Seriously, if they can't actually play along to a tempo consistently then they shouldn't call themselves musicians, and more than that, they definately shouldn't be recording.

It's cool to use local acts as experience, but you have to keep in mind that your name goes on their demo. You'll be associated with that sound. I certainly wouldn't want to put out anything I consider mediocre.

 

[unsilpauly]

What I don't understand is why they would opt not to use a click for any other reason than 'natural dynamics'. If they're a band that appreciate that sort of sound, and can live with mistakes in the recording, then that's cool, I dig it. But what the hell is so hard about playing along to those obnoxious clicks on PT, Cubase etc.? Seriously, if they can't actually play along to a tempo consistently then they shouldn't call themselves musicians, and more than that, they definately shouldn't be recording.

It's cool to use local acts as experience, but you have to keep in mind that your name goes on their demo. You'll be associated with that sound. I certainly wouldn't want to put out anything I consider mediocre.

those are all good points for sure. as far as the your name on it thing goes, if you make them sound better than they really are, everyone will know it. plus a crappy local bands demo is exactly that, and even the band usually knows its just a crappy demo and its because of them not the studio.

as far as the bands and clicks thing. most bands dont even know where to start with that whole thing. or they just think its too expensive or something. once you point them in the right direction, alot of them will start playing with a click and then theyll be better because of you . almost everyones first recording they do sucks. its usually after being in the studio a few times bands usually start to learn the importance of a click, arranging the songs and being tight on a more professional level.

fact of the matter is alot of the better, tighter local bands are gonna go to commercial facilities(maybe not super high end or anything) and the local bands that cant afford that are gonna go to home studio guys.

 

[Daunt]

I certainly wouldn't want to put out anything I consider mediocre.

You're not going to get great results everytime. We all have our schedules and bands have their budjets. It's a fact that there will be some projects that will not sound as good as they should.

 

[James Murphy]

i've taken my share of projects that i knew.. due to limitations of time and/or budget, and the ability of the band... wouldn't turn out as good as i would like to have out there with my name on it. we all go through this when learning, and again even after a certain level of skill is attained simply to keep the wheels greased and "bread on the table", whatever that means for you.. but when it comes time to career-build.. best to just stop accepting these kinds of projects.

the above is relative, however, to what you are trying to accomplish... are you building a studio business?.. or marketing yourself as a Producer? with the former, you have to keep the doors open and the electricity paid, so you take whatever keeps the place booked. with the latter, you best watch what leaves your hands.