Revisiting Master of Puppets and....

E

ElectricWiz

Steal Your Face
Feb 18, 2003
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Okay, so...threw MOP on for the first time in probably 8 months or something...and was just really reminded of its brilliance. I have long thought of it as the best metal album ever, and I'm hard pressed to think that will ever change. Maybe, we'll see.
Anyway, just so damned much to love about that record.

so, the "and" part....

I also put on St. Anger, and aside form the snare which most folks couldn't get past (and the lack of solos, though I couldn't personally care less about that) I really don't see what it is that people hate so damned much about this record. I mean it, I have to scratch my head at that. It has many, many killer riffs. It's mastered louder than all get out, and it contains some really killer tunes; Dirty Window, Frantic, The Unnamed Feeling.....
In fact, it's the first Metallica I was able to get into since AJFA (which was just marginal in my book by the way)
Seriously, I don't get it. I'm not trying to start what will surely be a fire soaked thread here, but I would like to hear some honest, well thought out ideas. 'Cause I hear it, and I think "what's the problem?" and even, "I fucking love this..." Dead serious. Fire away.
 
Your first point: MOP is the bible of heavy metal

Your second point: Awful album. Not only the banging on trash can sound and complete lack of solos, but lots of other things. Sure there was a good riff in each song, but they'd play it to death, and the songs were too long and boring as a result. Take the song "Master of Puppets", which is a long song, but is infinately relistenable due to change ups and solo breaks. Compare that to any song on St. Anger, which is just the same riff over and over and over and over and over, making the song long simply for the sake of being long rather than actually having a point. The lyrics were mediocre at best, silly at their worst. And after "One" became Metallica's first commercial hit, James seemed to get this delusional idea that he could actually sing. You can't, James, so please stop trying. And if I hear James say "yeeaahh" one more time, I think I might just puke.

I'm not knocking you for liking it, hey, it's your opinion. But while MoP is and always will be a metal classic, St.A is a weak album full of songs that are hard to sit through, performed by a band that is a shell of it's former self and well beyong their best-before date.
 
nafnikufesin said:
Your first point: MOP is the bible of heavy metal

Your second point: Awful album. Not only the banging on trash can sound and complete lack of solos, but lots of other things. Sure there was a good riff in each song, but they'd play it to death, and the songs were too long and boring as a result. Take the song "Master of Puppets", which is a long song, but is infinately relistenable due to change ups and solo breaks. Compare that to any song on St. Anger, which is just the same riff over and over and over and over and over, making the song long simply for the sake of being long rather than actually having a point. The lyrics were mediocre at best, silly at their worst. And after "One" became Metallica's first commercial hit, James seemed to get this delusional idea that he could actually sing. You can't, James, so please stop trying. And if I hear James say "yeeaahh" one more time, I think I might just puke.

I'm not knocking you for liking it, hey, it's your opinion. But while MoP is and always will be a metal classic, St.A is a weak album full of songs that are hard to sit through, performed by a band that is a shell of it's former self and well beyong their best-before date.
Click to expand...


I couldn't said it better myself instead to add that i prefer RTL over MOP... though i love MOP to me RTL was/is flawless... on MOP i didn't care too much for two songs: Leper Messiah and The Thing that should not Be...
 
For many years I considered "MOP" to be metal's ultimate highpoint....it was the "be all, end all" release, IMO. But I no longer feel that way. To my ears, thrash / speed metal just hasn't aged well. Or, perhaps I've not aged well....not sure which it is! But that's another story.

Anyway, while I still regard the classic Metallica records highly, that entire sub-genre has slipped from the lofty, high perch it previously held in my world.

Anyway, it's still a great album (although a remaster is sadly in need).

As for St Anger, I agree that it DOES contain some great riffs, but they seem to be simply pieced together...or quickly thrown together simply for the sake of making a mess. the record sounds like the musical equivelant of Frankenstein....a bit here, a piece there, some of this here...etc. It just lack cohesion. To my ears, it's a loose combination of riffs more than a collection of songs. The lack of solos doesn't matter to me...sometimes it's refreshing to hear a metal album without solos. And, let's face it: Hammet's solos are Ok but were never awesome. And Hetfield's easily one of the worst "singers" in the scene. That awful 'thing' he adds to the end of many of the words he sings is just....dreadful. But I can usually overlook poor vocals. heck, I love Dream Theater, which is evidence enough!

Every now and then I feel compelled to throw the album into my CD player & give it another try. Immediately I'm turned off by, what I consider to be, the single worst production ever put to tape. But, once again, I can overlook production if the songs deliver the goods (see Kiss' "Hotter than Hell" which features a terrible snare sound...but the songs are amazing!). The first two songs are pretty damned awesome but the record seemingly falls off a cliff with the start of the 3rd track....I dont even remember the songs' names.


Anyway, St Anger, if nothing else, shows me that the band still has some potential. Perhaps Rick Rubin will help them realize it and bring it to the forefront with the next release. But I'll reserve judgement until I hear some of it.


ps....for the record, I really like the Black Album, and many of the songs on Load (and 2 or 3 on Reload), so I'm not simply a "Metallica hater". A good song is a good song, right? I just dont think Anger contains good songs. Heck, my Ipod has over 11,000 songs on it and not one is from the latest Metallica record. That says a lot.​
 
Must be me but I guess to me the classic albums (the first 3 and to a extent AJFA) had as much to do with the producers as the band.. and imo only the return of Flemmin Rasmussen would help this band... it's like the beatles and their producer... everything clicked...
 
Unfaithfully Metalhead said:
I couldn't said it better myself instead to add that i prefer RTL over MOP... though i love MOP to me RTL was/is flawless... on MOP i didn't care too much for two songs: Leper Messiah and The Thing that should not Be...
Click to expand...


And I competely agree with this assessment, though I must say those two songs have grown on me over the years, possibly due to my growing appreciation for doom/sludge/etc.!!

And "Orion" kicks "Call of Ktulu"'s ass!
 
Dee Snarl said:
And I competely agree with this assessment, though I must say those two songs have grown on me over the years, possibly due to my growing appreciation for doom/sludge/etc.!!

And "Orion" kicks "Call of Ktulu"'s ass!
Click to expand...

Yes Orion does but Call is still awesome itself... Orion is probably my favorite all time instrumental be it metal or not...
 
I cant even listen to Metallica anymore past Puppets. They are so overplayed its not even funny. Ive really gotten into Annihilator and Testamnt and realize that they are far superior bands. Overkill too.
 
ElectricWiz said:
I also put on St. Anger, and aside form the snare which most folks couldn't get past (and the lack of solos, though I couldn't personally care less about that) I really don't see what it is that people hate so damned much about this record.
Click to expand...

Honestly, I can't tell you because I haven't been able to force myself to listen to it enough to form a reasonable opinion -- it just does not work at all to my ears. I did like the mix of the live DVD that came with it better than the CD itself. The drum sound on both really makes me cringe though.
 
SoundMaster said:
But I can usually overlook poor vocals. heck, I love Dream Theater, which is evidence enough!
Click to expand...

Dude, how can you have Glenn Hughes as your sig and say something like that? Surely that alone would mean you know SOMETHING about singing and singers. Put on Images and Words and find me a place that's out of key or just sounds off (or bad)? Lebrie is a great singer. Pavarotti? No. But he's miles above most - he's got an excellent range and tone and he holds up very well during shows.

You make a near perfect case in your metallica arguement and I agreed with almost everything you had said, except the above.

:Smug:
 
For the record, I can't stand Labrie's vocals either. His voice grates on my nerves. Only time I could remotely handle him was his guest appearance on Ayreon - The Human Equation. And even then I think of him as the weakest link on that album. His vocals just sound so...um...how to describe it? Flat, I guess.

Sorry 74! I'm with Soundmaster on this!
 
LaBrie's vocals are great, I'm with PM74. Not only DT and Ayreon "The Human Equation", but also check "Leonardo-The Absolute Man" a prog/project by Trent Gardner and all-star musicians where James plays the title character. As well worths to check his first two solo albums (the Mullmuzler ones), the third one sucks but because like TOT went too mallcore in sound.

He fault a bit more live, but I guess most newer singers (and some old too) do it.
 
Unfaithfully Metalhead said:
Must be me but I guess to me the classic albums (the first 3 and to a extent AJFA) had as much to do with the producers as the band.. and imo only the return of Flemmin Rasmussen would help this band... it's like the beatles and their producer... everything clicked...
Click to expand...

I'm not even sure Flemming Rasmussen new much about metal before Metallica. Maybe he did, only that I had never heard of him previous. In any case, I think I read that he worked on sound effects records or something. Again, maybe just a bad memory on my part. In any case, I've long thought him to be the missing number in the equation for them, even if he is low-budget price. Master 'o Puppets is superior not only in songs, but in sound quality. In fact, I remember well that there were TONS of people trying to copy that guitar sound for a few years after, and I'd argue still now....
 
Wyvern said:
LaBrie's vocals are great, I'm with PM74. Not only DT and Ayreon "The Human Equation", but also check "Leonardo-The Absolute Man" a prog/project by Trent Gardner and all-star musicians where James plays the title character. As well worths to check his first two solo albums (the Mullmuzler ones), the third one sucks but because like TOT went too mallcore in sound.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but this is coming from someone who doesn't like the new Iron Maiden. :p Sorry, Wyv, but it's a new year and I had to get at least one more jab in!
 
ElectricWiz said:
Okay, so...threw MOP on for the first time in probably 8 months or something...and was just really reminded of its brilliance. I have long thought of it as the best metal album ever, and I'm hard pressed to think that will ever change. Maybe, we'll see.
Anyway, just so damned much to love about that record.

so, the "and" part....

I also put on St. Anger, and aside form the snare which most folks couldn't get past (and the lack of solos, though I couldn't personally care less about that) I really don't see what it is that people hate so damned much about this record. I mean it, I have to scratch my head at that. It has many, many killer riffs. It's mastered louder than all get out, and it contains some really killer tunes; Dirty Window, Frantic, The Unnamed Feeling.....
In fact, it's the first Metallica I was able to get into since AJFA (which was just marginal in my book by the way)
Seriously, I don't get it. I'm not trying to start what will surely be a fire soaked thread here, but I would like to hear some honest, well thought out ideas. 'Cause I hear it, and I think "what's the problem?" and even, "I fucking love this..." Dead serious. Fire away.
Click to expand...

Yes I agree MOP was one of the better Metallica albums. I loved them all up to UJFA, then I think they sold out. Just my thoughts. In fact I remember seeing that tour MOP/Ozzy when Cliff Burton was still with us. My GF and I where walking around stadium where concert was being held and all of a sudden these guys with Long ass hair where like hey Baby to me and friend we looked at them like NOT. Then relaized it was Metallica......our loss I suppose! Anyway back to the Albums(yes I still have them on Vinyal) I don't think they are given enough credit for "Ride The Lightening" Just my thoughts:kickass: jenniferlee
 
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