Revisiting Master of Puppets and....

MOP was a great release. I haven't even heard St. Anger. I think the whole RTL - AJFA Metallica is outstanding. Is it the "be all - end all" ? I think Metal Church released "Blessing in Disguise" and equalled anything Meallica has ever released. Though not "progressive thrash" per se' I think it was pretty close to what Metallica released.

Bryant
 
Dude, how can you have Glenn Hughes as your sig and say something like that? Surely that alone would mean you know SOMETHING about singing and singers. Put on Images and Words and find me a place that's out of key or just sounds off (or bad)? Lebrie is a great singer. Pavarotti? No. But he's miles above most - he's got an excellent range and tone and he holds up very well during shows.

You make a near perfect case in your metallica arguement and I agreed with almost everything you had said, except the above.

:Smug:

Sorry....I just don't like the sound or tonal quality of his voice. Not being a musician, I can't define what it is. Sure, he can technically sing well, but it's not "music to my ears". There are plenty of good singers whose voices grate on my nerves. Ray Alder is one of them. I also have a hard time with Ripper Owens. But that's just me!
 
I think Metal Church released "Blessing in Disguise" and equalled anything Meallica has ever released. Though not "progressive thrash" per se' I think it was pretty close to what Metallica released.

Bryant

"Blessing" is a brilliant record and is radically under-appreciated. It's one of the few thrash records that I still turn to on a regular basis (along with Overkill's "Years of Decay"). :worship:
 
Call me crazy, but I think many of the songs on "Load" are far superior to 'St Anger'. But again, Het's voice hurts the Load record...


Well, it does kind of come down to the voice with them, and for what it's worth, I thought he let go of some of the "bad" sounds he makes on St. Anger. Also, just to explain a little, one of the things I like about St. Anger is that it really reflects what they were going through at the time, James' rehab and all that. Sooooo....for my money the poor production actually works well with the "concept," in that it is raw and kind of naked. Maybe it's not Metallica's place to make artistic statements, but again, it worked for me. There are some strangely insightful lyrics on the record too...or at the very least honest lyrics: "Not only do I not know the answer, I don't even know what the question is....", "I'll die if I let go, control is love, love is control..."

Stuff like that was really shocking to me, especially since James has always been such an intentional badass. And really, I understand that is just the kind of stuff that put the average metalhead off about the record. But, after years of singing about fast cars and the earlier usual metal stuff, I thought it very cool that they stepped up and did a record that was kind of about growing up, facing reality, and being honest. Sure, it's touchy feely in a way, but it just worked for me.

And one last note on the production, I thought it was at least somewhat similar to the way, say, and early Motorhead record would sound, and so was an interesting experiment, snare sound aside - not even I will defend that.

Really my point with this post was not that it is amazing, but that it is not the big, obvious loser that everyone refers to it as. It ain't that bad....

Master of Puppets it most definately is not, but if nothing else, if they kept making that record over and over so to speak, I'm fairly sure there would be a HUGE outcry on the Internet about how lame and repetitive they had become. As an example, the new Maiden album is brilliant in my book, and while a lot of people think so as well, a lot have not embraced it (both views being fine), but I think largely because Maiden never steps too far off their normal path.

It's a double edged sword is all....and I think that Metallica has a HUGE well of bad feelings to overcome with the metal crowd with every release. There's a pretty good chance that it's gonna "suck," before anybody even hears it. For what it's worth, I was a small town kid when MOP came out and nobody I knew liked it or recognized it for what it was.....and not to get on my high horse here, but I seem to be all alone again with St. Anger. Fine. Not ranting, I swear. It just makes me feel nostalgic is all...ha. And I'm not saying the two records compare in anyway. My point is that it was fashionable to dislike Metallica in my school because metal was still very much a fringe thing, meant only for stoners and burnouts. Now it's fashionable to dislike them again (albeit for very different reasons)....and well, it's just all so confusing.
 
Dude, how can you have Glenn Hughes as your sig and say something like that? Surely that alone would mean you know SOMETHING about singing and singers. Put on Images and Words and find me a place that's out of key or just sounds off (or bad)? Lebrie is a great singer. Pavarotti? No. But he's miles above most - he's got an excellent range and tone and he holds up very well during shows.

You make a near perfect case in your metallica arguement and I agreed with almost everything you had said, except the above.

:Smug:


With respect holmes, the standard line of thinking is that James LaBrie is by far the weakest link in DT nowadays. Although maybe now the weakest link is their *ahem* wandering style of songwriting they choose to record their music in. But that's another issue. I&W has great songs where LaBrie is actually quite tollerable. But to say he is great, well that is 100% sure a debatable subject, to say the least.

And equating Glenn Hughes to James LaBrie is almost sinful, IMO.

As to the original post, MOP is indeed one of the greatest, most classic Metyal albums EVER. Hetfield, Ulrich, Burton and Hammett deserve every bit of songwriting royalties they've ever received with that one. From beginning to end, a complete and utter masterpiece.

But St.Anger...well let's just say that I agree with the guy with the Anthrax screen name and Soundmaster and leave it with that.:headbang:
 
MOP was a great release. I haven't even heard St. Anger. I think the whole RTL - AJFA Metallica is outstanding. Is it the "be all - end all" ? I think Metal Church released "Blessing in Disguise" and equalled anything Meallica has ever released. Though not "progressive thrash" per se' I think it was pretty close to what Metallica released.

Bryant


Agreed about "Blessing In Disguise". If anyone reading this thread doesn't have it, then you are missing out. Do yourself a favor and buy a copy online. It is a classic.
 
With respect holmes, the standard line of thinking is that James LaBrie is by far the weakest link in DT nowadays. Although maybe now the weakest link is their *ahem* wandering style of songwriting they choose to record their music in. But that's another issue. I&W has great songs where LaBrie is actually quite tollerable. But to say he is great, well that is 100% sure a debatable subject, to say the least.

And equating Glenn Hughes to James LaBrie is almost sinful, IMO.

Hughes is the better singer, I wasn't equating the two, but they are certainly on the same playing field. I was simply saying that in his signature he had hughes and said something so harsh about Lebrie.

I know he's no opera singer, but his range is excellent and although he's lost a few steps in recent years, most singer generally do over time (case in point: Rob Halford, Tate, Dickinson). He holds up very well during DT's shows, which by the way are typically 2-3 hours in length, which is a damn long time to sing - especially 4-5 times a week!