Riff by riff recording

[Ermz]

I use Cubase SX and normally record riffs one or two at a time, as most modern producers tend to. What I need to know is, what is the best way of doing this?

Do you have two tracks devoted to any single guitar part, and simply alternate between the two tracks when continuing off from one part with another... you know, to prevent those 'pops' from digitally 'punching-in' the next riff in the same track.

Or, do you record it all on the same track, but use 'punching-in' with crossfading to give the illusion of fluency?

When I used Adobe Audition, I always did it the first way, but the more I use VST instruments, the more CPU power gets consumed, and hence I just can't afford to have around 8 guitar tracks (2 doubled over panned each way, and then the extra 4 to add fluidity).

Some advice would be greatly appreciated. Cheers.

Oh and something rather embarassing... I'm not very well versed in using fading techniques in Cubase.. so if that's indeed the way you use, please provide me with a little tutorial on how to do it, haha. Thanks alot.

 

[Brett - K A L I S I A]

I also use Cubase SX. What I do is I have a record enabled track, where I record all the guitars, but when a take is ok I drag its part to the appropriate track underneath (guitar a1, a2, b1, b2...). For the crossfades, make sure you have two overlapping parts (on the same track of course), select them both and press "X". Make sure the overlapping section is not too long...

Hope this helps...

Brett

 

[Razorjack]

I personally build the guitar track into one long fluid track in Sound Forge, theres no problems with pop/clicks if you make sure that the sample's waveform ends with a value at 0, and the next waveform starts at 0.

 

[Ermz]

For hypothesis' sake, say you're only recording one guitar and there is two riffs in the song. You want to record the two riffs in two seperate takes. The first riff finishes on an Em chord and you let that ring well into the time that the second riff would have started. Now, do you record the next riff into that same track, cut down the Em and crossfade a few milliseconds, OR, do you record the next riff into a different track despite it being part of the same 'guitar part'.

With your way of recording, don't you end up with way too many guitar tracks? I mean say you're layering 4 guitars and have 2 tracks for each guitar so you can keep it flowing fluidly, you'll have 8 by the end, and that becomes a bit of a resource hog, as well as harder to manage. Or am I understanding you wrong?

 

[Hopkins-WitchfinderGeneral]

I use Cubase SX and normally record riffs one or two at a time, as most modern producers tend to. What I need to know is, what is the best way of doing this?

Do you have two tracks devoted to any single guitar part, and simply alternate between the two tracks when continuing off from one part with another... you know, to prevent those 'pops' from digitally 'punching-in' the next riff in the same track.

Or, do you record it all on the same track, but use 'punching-in' with crossfading to give the illusion of fluency?

When I used Adobe Audition, I always did it the first way, but the more I use VST instruments, the more CPU power gets consumed, and hence I just can't afford to have around 8 guitar tracks (2 doubled over panned each way, and then the extra 4 to add fluidity).

Some advice would be greatly appreciated. Cheers.

Oh and something rather embarassing... I'm not very well versed in using fading techniques in Cubase.. so if that's indeed the way you use, please provide me with a little tutorial on how to do it, haha. Thanks alot.

i use 2 guitars, one on either side.

i start out with four tracks, alternating between 2 each time until I have the whole song.

When i do i mix the 4 down to a single stereo track and voila: easier to mix and it was easy recording it.

 

[Hopkins-WitchfinderGeneral]

I personally build the guitar track into one long fluid track in Sound Forge, theres no problems with pop/clicks if you make sure that the sample's waveform ends with a value at 0, and the next waveform starts at 0.

...and if theres any run over thats causing a volume swell, you can try eroding it slowly with a really quick fade, simulating a crossfade really... but you're smarter than a computer so it works better. hehe

 

[ThomasT]

I don't like this riff by riff recording. Sure I copy and paste some parts or I correct them.
Sometimes I record riff by riff when the player has problems to switch the hand position quickly enough. But recording all riff by riff...we play metal...not techno.

What about a soud library where all chord combination exist? So we don't need any nerving guitarist in the studio anymore...since the bass (not important for true metal guitarist producers, you often hear it...) and drums are programmed, too. No to mention any keyboards. Do we need a singer? Or does a library exists with all needed words?
Part I "true metal": including kill, hail, metal, dragon, fire, free, power, die, sword
Part II "death metal": including death, blood, gore, rape, die, corpse,
Part II "blach metal": satan, odin, kill, sword, jesus, die, hell, blood

 

[Ermz]

cut some slack dude. I normally learn or write a song as I record it. I don't have time to get it all down in pieces then sit down and do it in one take. It's alot more practical this way, and it's hardly like I'm printing out an album from home .

 

[Hopkins-WitchfinderGeneral]

I don't like this riff by riff recording. Sure I copy and paste some parts or I correct them.
Sometimes I record riff by riff when the player has problems to switch the hand position quickly enough. But recording all riff by riff...we play metal...not techno.

What about a soud library where all chord combination exist? So we don't need any nerving guitarist in the studio anymore...since the bass (not important for true metal guitarist producers, you often hear it...) and drums are programmed, too. No to mention any keyboards. Do we need a singer? Or does a library exists with all needed words?
Part I "true metal": including kill, hail, metal, dragon, fire, free, power, die, sword
Part II "death metal": including death, blood, gore, rape, die, corpse,
Part II "blach metal": satan, odin, kill, sword, jesus, die, hell, blood

How's the weather in the stone age Fritz?

 

[ThomasT]

Metal age, Tommy...

 

[ThomasT]

In my opinion the feeling gets lost sometimes if you copy and paste too often.
E.g. the third verse is a little bit more aggressive.

It's really boring to listen to the next steril metal album with triggered drums, and steril guitars with the same POD settings.
Listen to the last Nightwish Album. The songs are good, as well the production, but it sounds steril IMHO. Compare newer harder productions to older ones like Sepultura "Beneath the remains", Kreator "Extreme Aggression", Morgoth "Cursed", Morbid Angel "Altars of madness", Carnivore "Retaliation" to know what I mean. Hard to explain. I don't mean the old fashioned production, I mean the feeling and the individuality.

 

[Ermz]

I know what you mean. But this is the new age... recordings are tighter, more polished, at the expense of 'soul'. Especially for us home recorders where its practical to go more and more digital.

 

[commandante]

I think it all comes down to the atmosphere you are creating. I don't think anyone would listen to Venom, if they recorded their records meticilously riff by riff. On the contrary, you can't make Fear Factory to record all guitar and drum parts in one sitting.
PS: It is all in the ear of the beholder and it is funny because it is true.

 

[Hopkins-WitchfinderGeneral]

Beholder is a creature with many riffs!

 

[DIOBOLIC5150]

I always do my guitar tracks in one take with a total of 4 tracks all together for guitar. It sucks and it's frustrating but I do it for a reason. 1- it can sound way more fluent if you don't fuck up (that takes several takes sometimes). 2- I figure if I can't play the song fairly smoothly to begin with, I may not pull it off right in a live environment. The only time I ever really punch in, is for a totally separate guitar track to overlay the existing tracks.
Usually, most good metal songs are too complicated to play all the way through in one take when recording. But I like to think I'm better than that. If you're a mediocre guitarist, riff by riff might be your best option... or maybe it suits your production better. I think it's more work to dick with the song riff by riff than it is to just play it right in one take. Again, that's just how I see it, everyone has their own way.
I'm no pro, but I like saying that I pulled of some sick riffs without falling out (even though I still suck). hehe.

By the way... didn't we cover this post a couple months ago?? I swear we've already been here...

 

[Djabthrash]

Sorry for necrothread resurrection, but i have a question regarding the riff by riff recording technique :

if you have a song that has a riff 1 and right after a riff 2, and you want to record riff 1 first and then riff 2 and then glue them together, how do you do it ? :

-when recording riff 1, do you stop playing at the exact end of riff 1, or do you go on (i.e you "overlap/spill/spread" onto the second riff a little bit) till' say the first note/time/whatever (i.e the very beginning) of riff 2 ?
-then i guess you record riff 2 at its very beginning (as if the song started with riff 2)
-and finally you move the right edge of the riff 1 "audio event" to a point where when it's crossfaded with riff 2 at this exact spot, playback sounds like you played riff 1 + riff 2 in one shot (= it sounds fluid and natural, and not like there is a break in between), right ? Where would that spot be ideally (if there is one, since maybe it depends on the riff/context/performance/aimed feel) ? At the exact beginning of riff 2 (= on the grid) ? Or at a short bit into riff 2 (say in between the first note and the second note off riff 2) ?
-and finally, for project "cleanliness" purpose, you glue riff 1 and riff 2 together (the gluing point being the point you ended chosing while moving the right edge of riff 1 at the previous step)

Hope i make myself clear...

 

[bryan_kilco]

Sorry for necrothread resurrection, but i have a question regarding the riff by riff recording technique :

if you have a song that has a riff 1 and right after a riff 2, and you want to record riff 1 first and then riff 2 and then glue them together, how do you do it ? :

-when recording riff 1, do you stop playing at the exact end of riff 1, or do you go on (i.e you "overlap/spill/spread" onto the second riff a little bit) till' say the first note/time/whatever (i.e the very beginning) of riff 2 ?
-then i guess you record riff 2 at its very beginning (as if the song started with riff 2)
-and finally you move the right edge of the riff 1 "audio event" to a point where when it's crossfaded with riff 2 at this exact spot, playback sounds like you played riff 1 + riff 2 in one shot (= it sounds fluid and natural, and not like there is a break in between), right ? Where would that spot be ideally (if there is one, since maybe it depends on the riff/context/performance/aimed feel) ? At the exact beginning of riff 2 (= on the grid) ? Or at a short bit into riff 2 (say in between the first note and the second note off riff 2) ?
-and finally, for project "cleanliness" purpose, you glue riff 1 and riff 2 together (the gluing point being the point you ended chosing while moving the right edge of riff 1 at the previous step)

Hope i make myself clear...

Holy necro bump!

If the guitarist/bassist is tight enough, you shouldn't have a problem just punching in at the exact moment "riff 2" would start. Just make sure "riff 1" isn't cut too early.

 

[Old_Gregg]

Sorry for necrothread resurrection, but i have a question regarding the riff by riff recording technique :

if you have a song that has a riff 1 and right after a riff 2, and you want to record riff 1 first and then riff 2 and then glue them together, how do you do it ? :

-when recording riff 1, do you stop playing at the exact end of riff 1, or do you go on (i.e you "overlap/spill/spread" onto the second riff a little bit) till' say the first note/time/whatever (i.e the very beginning) of riff 2 ?
-then i guess you record riff 2 at its very beginning (as if the song started with riff 2)
-and finally you move the right edge of the riff 1 "audio event" to a point where when it's crossfaded with riff 2 at this exact spot, playback sounds like you played riff 1 + riff 2 in one shot (= it sounds fluid and natural, and not like there is a break in between), right ? Where would that spot be ideally (if there is one, since maybe it depends on the riff/context/performance/aimed feel) ? At the exact beginning of riff 2 (= on the grid) ? Or at a short bit into riff 2 (say in between the first note and the second note off riff 2) ?
-and finally, for project "cleanliness" purpose, you glue riff 1 and riff 2 together (the gluing point being the point you ended chosing while moving the right edge of riff 1 at the previous step)

Hope i make myself clear...

It depends what works best for the people you are recording, however whenever I'm being lazy and stick 2 riffs together I always play the last bar of riff 1 when I'm going into riff 2/the first bar of riff 2 when finishing riff 1. It just seems to make it a lot smoother in terms of all the tiny minor noises you cant help but make when moving your fingers around the fretboard. Then its just a case of making them fade into one another slightly, usually only a few milliseconds

 

[Djabthrash]

Thanks guys ! Exactly the kind of feedback i needed !

Ok so that was about how you track your 2 riffs separately.

Now, when you have your 2 riffs tracked nicely, do you "cut" (i mean you move their respective edges (they touch each other) to a specific spot) them "on the grid" or do you look for a spot (which could be on the grid but not necessarily (i.e slightly before or slightly after the grid line)) that would make the transition sound smooth (= natural) ?

 

[Old_Gregg]

Like i said its all down to you really, why not try both and see what sounds better to you? A big part of improving is trying different techniques till you find one that works for you.

I did already specify to only make them fade a little bit, but thats because its what sounds good to me. I change it so I can drag the edges without them snapping to the grid, then move them the tiniest bit over each other so they overlap. Personally I think the smaller the fade, the less likely you are to notice it.

Like I said though, try out different things for yourself and see what works for you