School me on recording drums!

[AmirH]

Hi all,

I mostly just lurk on this forum, but it's become pretty obvious that this is a reliable place for recording tips. In another 3 or 4 months I'm going to try to record live drum tracks for my album/demo for a second time. Last time I failed miserably and I've been recording tracks to programmed drums since. The advantage here- is that I can use those as "guides" something I hadn't thought of back then SOOO... here's what I have to work with this time around-

audix fusion 4 drum mics
two shure sm57s
neumann 87
2 gig p4 pc with emu-1212 soundcard and cubase sx
old crate pa mixer(cabs for it too but thats irrelevant)
behringer mic100(don't kill me plz)


Unfortunately, I'm most likely gonna have to record em in my garage. That or the tool shed we used last time I KNOW that this is gonna be acoustic hell, but I don't have a good space to do this... theres a reason I DI guitars. Current plan is to get the behringer unit with 8 mic pres and an adat connection so that I can ditch the pa mixer and record dry to seperate tracks. I'm on a budget here, so if you have a better idea it can't be outrageously expensive. The set itself is mid-level and he's constantly upgrading it so it sounds pretty nice. I'll set him up with some iso phones, play the guide(don't know if it should have the click or not) and have just have him play to it. I don't even know if thats right!

SOOO... how would all you recording gurus suggest I go about dampening the room and setting up the mics to get the best sound. I read a bit earier that using triggers is common too but I have no idea how to do that either Is it wise to record drums dry like that or am I still missing the idea? I really, REALLY don't wanna botch it up again- so I'm asking early so that when he comes I will be completely ready. A drum machine is no replacement for Mike, and god knows- nowhere close when I try to program it. Thanks in advance,

-Amir

 

[martyfireball]

i have to record all my "live" stuff in my garage too. What I done was put a layer of underlay and carpet on the floor then built a carpet "wall" to enclose the kit.
It dampens the space pretty well, and in fact i'm going to remove the carpet from the block walls and just use a few 2'x4' foam diffusers to allow a little more zing in the space.
BTW, there's there's nothing wrong with using budget gear. Use it to build up your experience and know-how then upgrade when it makes sense.

 

[James Murphy]

i wouldn't send the drummer the programed drums... i would only send him the click... and either play along with him on guitar or record a guide track or two to feed him along with the click so that you are free to punch in and out and watch your levels, etc. most drummers do quite well with that if you are playing along with them because the visual queues you provide while playing add to the feel and the drummer's confidence. but you can get by with pre-recording a guide track to send him with the click.. just make sure your position behind the computer is easily visible to the drummer and just air-guitar or "conduct" from there... the visual queues will help many drummers. i've done this A LOT lately. some drummers don't seem to need any visual queues at all though.. depends on the drummer. if you have a second guitarist then all of this is a non-issue.. just have him play with the drummer and send the click. it can be cool to record a guide track as well as playing along live... keeps things moving even if the live guitarist fouls up badly as the drummer will be less likely to cock it up as well since the guide track will be there to keep things straight.

the programmed drums would just foul up the drummer usually.. especially if he wants to do a different feel during a specific part than the one you programmed... in that case the programmed drums would be VERY distracting. you'll get more out of your drummer if you leave the drums you programmed out of his cans.

 

[AmirH]

The "carpet wall" sounds pretty practical, I bet thick blankets or something similar would have the same effect. Good to know something like that will work.

Playing guide tracks minus programmed drums and playing along for visual cues may just be our godsend. I can't even begin to tell you how many times I fucked it all up last time we tried this, but if the guide track can keep him on cue it may just solve the problem. Thanks for that info James- it was quite informative.

Now then- is it common practice to use sm57's on drums or do you suppose I'll be better off using only the drum mics? Last time I tried this I got a really crazy sounding kick from my friends c1000's, but I think I'll just try to get "normal" sounds this time

And triggering- how does it work? Should I try to learn enough to utilize it? From what I've gathered- you record the drums and then replace the sounds with samples- correct? Or does it require a midi device?

Thanks for the help so far.

 

[Razorjack]

I often use a 57 on the snare.

 

[AmirH]

Is it generally a necessity to mic the snare?

http://elboardo.com/amir/mike_drum_madness.mp3

That was just us jamming(I had my amp in the same room so there's leakage) and I had thrown two of the audix mics on top for overheads and used the bass drum mic about 3 inches from the back head- balanced on phone books and shoe(didn't have many stands on hand). This was his living room so it wasn't as bad as a garage. It was straight into the pa mixer, from that line out into the mic100 to reduce noise- and then into the soundcard. It is unmixed. I think the snare cuts well with just the overheads, and the bass isn't quite in the right frequency. Suppose I should use a different bass mic or adjust it with eq? Or maybe position differently...

And someone- tell me about triggers please! Or give a link or something.

 

[Razorjack]

If I'm working with limited tracks (like an 8-input soundcard), then I mic the Kick (i prefer a D112 but any kick mic is fine) , Snare (SM57), one mic in between the two top toms (either a dedicated tom mic, or another 57), one on the floor tom (same as the other toms) and a pair of overheads (I like a pair of C1000's, but any matched condensers will do the job).

Seperate tracks are very important to keep a clean sound. Not mic'ing the snare and using the overheads to pick it up reduces the scope for EQ later, as you can't do anything without changing the sound of the snare.

At the very least, kick, snare and overheads need to be miced up.

 

[AmirH]

NICE. I can borrow those c1000's again for overheads, use the three audix mics for toms, and the bass mic for the bass, and then use an sm57 for the snare. I'm feeling better about this whole thing already.

 

[silverwulf]

We just went into our buddy's home studio today and laid down most all the drum tracks for a small demo. We used a Shure Beta 52 on the kick, a Shure SM-57 on the snare and one on all three toms, one for the cymbals to the right, then had 2 Oktava MK-319's as overhead's (we used all 8 channels on the input). Those Oktava's actually sound pretty damn sweet for inexpensive overheads.

 

[Genius Gone Insane]

And triggering- how does it work? Should I try to learn enough to utilize it? From what I've gathered- you record the drums and then replace the sounds with samples- correct? Or does it require a midi device?

Thanks for the help so far.

Triggering is a dream come true once you get the hang of it. There are several different routes to go about it, 3 that I list here:

1. I started out with triggers coming off the drums directly to an Alesis DM5 module. Record the L/R output into pro tools or what not...Some of the hits were off, and that recorded sound was permanent, you cant really change it without using aptrigga, which defeats the purpose anyway.

2. Record the DM5 Midi signal to a Protools midi track. For some reason the hits were off. Trigger quality in this case was crucial. Expensive triggers yielded good results, but the cheap $15 ones sucked ass. Because you have a midi track, you can easily change the sounds after recording, which you can't do in situation #1.

3. Record the triggers to an audio track, skipping the DM5 entirely. These click noises, though annoying, are easy to replace in a sound replacer program. This has produced the best sound for my band by far, even though it is somewhat artificial sounding (my friends cant tell tho). Most of the hits are accurate, certainly more accurate than the DM5 midi track.

By the way, when i first started, I actually punched in every hit to a midi track a couple times. This took a HELLA long time, but the results were pretty good.

Hope that helps. :hotjump:

 

[AmirH]

Nice! So, I could get the cheapo triggers- record them to an audio track, and then just replace the sounds with dfh or something similar right? Doesn't that somewhat defeat the purpose of recording live drums though? I mean, you could get similar results using a midi keyboard- or am I still missing something?

 

[blackcom]

You still have the overheads and the feel of a human being....try mixing the miced and triggered snare....you'll might end up only using mics on the toms....triggered kicks will save you when you're mixing, though....