Screaming vocal processing

[-JohanFrisk-]

Howdy howdy howdy!
So this is my first post. I have been on here for some time now and this is by far the most awesome forum ever
I had plans of making a really cool first post by giving away IR's or drum samples or something but this thing came up. I guess I can always share stuff later

There have been many discussions about (screaming) vocal processing but there's this one thing that has been kept a secret (or maybe it's one of those things that don't have a simple solution)

So with Fry screaming (ie the professional, correct way of screaming) you always have this characteristic overtone sound thingy going on, kinda like a gurgly, creaky noise. False cord screaming (the nooby way of screaming, the thing you do when you're angry. also common in "unprofessional" death metal) doesn't have the same aggressive overtone sound (although much louder in volume)

The thing is, it seems like the fry screaming on some studio albums has been processed somehow so that the characteristic overtone sound has been "tamed" and it sounds more like False cord screaming sounds.
I assume that this is because of some kind of processing.
Take Frail Worlds Collapse by As I lay Dying for example. The screaming is really er, growly. But on Shadows are Security you can hear the characteristic fry sound as if this album didn't have as much of this "vocal effect" as the previous one.
If you watch (well, listen to) their live DVD This is who we are the screaming sounds like it does on the studio albums but there's a part after the song Meaning in Tragedy where you can hear a short section from the live show that wasn't studio mixed & mastered and the screaming sounds just like regular fry screaming.
(Yes, I suspect that Tim Lambesis is "cheating", "faking it". There's a huge difference between his "real voice" and the processed result... but in a good way, it's br00tahl and i love it <3)

My question is:
How could we achieve this effect?
Basic vocal processing like EQing, compression, reverb and stuff like that just doesn't seem to do the trick and it's most likely not about different microphone models and pres either
Parallel distortion maybe? some weird impulse response?
Help me out here...

 

[Terminus]

Saturation. Almost like a distortion for the voice.

 

[-JohanFrisk-]

I should experiment with that. haven't really tried it because I've always thought of distortion as a way of cheating

 

[Terminus]

Bah, not cheating imo. Alot of people would say editing guitars, auto-tune on vocals, and programming drums are cheating also. [shrug] This apparently doesnt stop hordes of people from 'cheating' every day.

 

[-JohanFrisk-]

Good point, you're so right but I wonder how would people react if I did that saturation thingy w/ tons of compression live "well, the drummer is using triggers so he's 'cheating' too..."

Okay but do you guys have any 'favorite', tried&tested saturation plugins for screaming vox? or any other tricks you use?

 

[AllanD]

I usually use the Blockfish compressor (free), and set the saturation and air all the way up. Then I cut everything under 100hz, because it's usually a bunch of pops lower than that anyways. I don't use distortion unless like mentioned, they use the wrong way of doing the vocals.

 

[-JohanFrisk-]

I usually use the Blockfish compressor (free), and set the saturation and air all the way up. Then I cut everything under 100hz, because it's usually a bunch of pops lower than that anyways. I don't use distortion unless like mentioned, they use the wrong way of doing the vocals.

Out of curiosity, do you low-cut the effected signal and blend it with the dry signal or is everything done in series? I'm a little sceptical about cutting @100Hz

 

[Terminus]

Good point, you're so right but I wonder how would people react if I did that saturation thingy w/ tons of compression live "well, the drummer is using triggers so he's 'cheating' too..."

Okay but do you guys have any 'favorite', tried&tested saturation plugins for screaming vox? or any other tricks you use?

This isnt live, so that matters about none to me, and add the fact that MANY awesome bands like Bloodbath and Cadaver use the fuck out of some saturation for vocals on their albums

The saturation plug I use at the moment is TLS Saturated Driver.
http://www.homerecording.be/download/1175

There's also Bootsy's Tessla Pro:
http://varietyofsound.wordpress.com...tesslapro-a-transient-aware-signal-saturator/

Bootsy's Ferric:
http://varietyofsound.wordpress.com/2009/12/04/and-the-winner-is-ferrictds/

Ferox:
http://www.jeroenbreebaart.com/

 

[AllanD]

Out of curiosity, do you low-cut the effected signal and blend it with the dry signal or is everything done in series? I'm a little sceptical about cutting @100Hz

Nope. Just a high pass at 100Hz. Almost nothing under that line is useful information, just really overdoes the "p" sound.

 

[-JohanFrisk-]

Whoa, thanks a million guys Blockfish and Tessla gave the screams some serious balls.
I never thought it would be so simple. Problem solved

EDIT: Wait, this was not really what I was looking for. I know the question was very vague, but I didn't really ask for something to make it sound MORE aggressive. (but warm saturation did help a little)

I'm a little sceptical about cutting @100Hz

[facepalm] wtf was I thinking how embarrasing...

 

[ParsonsMatt]

Gate, compression, EQ, reverb. I don't need any distortion to sound aggressive.

 

[-JohanFrisk-]

neither do I :Smug: but that wasn't the question. I merely wanted to "tame some aggressiveness" and get a different kind of sound. distortion helped to some extent.

 

[kladdkaka]

Tim (vocalist, as i lay dying) doesn't fry scream! He didnt on frail words, not on shadows and not on ocean between us. Tim has said in interviews that he has to use 100% of his capacity to get the sound he gets. Sure there are some effects on there, but mostly its layering of vocal tracks. Check out the making of shadows are security called behind the shadows (its on youtube). While you are on youtube you should check a few videos to see what fry screaming actually is.

The reason he sounds so different between frail words and the dvd is because its like 8 years old and he's naturally evolved his scream, to some extent better production but its not the dominating factor.

 

[JayB]

Some good info here , I was wondering about this as well

 

[-JohanFrisk-]

Tim (vocalist, as i lay dying) doesn't fry scream! ... Tim has said in interviews that he has to use 100% of his capacity to get the sound he gets. Sure there are some effects on there, but mostly its layering of vocal tracks. Check out the making of shadows are security called behind the shadows (its on youtube). While you are on youtube you should check a few videos to see what fry screaming actually is.

Hahaha, I knew it would come to this!

firstly, I can do both vocal techniques fairly well and I'm familiar with how they differ sound-wise & technique-wise.
secondly, he never stated anything really. You can "go 100%" with any technique, think about it.
Not "scream @ 100% of the maximal volume a person can produce" but more like "push the screaming as loud as it can go". Go watch it again and keep this in mind.
Tim is most likely fry screaming (at least live and on later albums! but maybe not on the FWC album), the screams on his more recent material have that sound. Just like other well-known fry screamers.
I wouldn't bet my life on it though, I'm a little unsure about him. I fear that he falsecords (on the albums that is) and I hope he doesn't.
btw, I just took a fresh listen and carefully analyzed FWC and that's probably fry as well, but a very unique style. the question in the OP was how that unique sound could be achieved with a "not so unique sounding source". (I don't think people really understood what I wanted to get, I didn't explain carefully enough)

The only reliable sources I know have stated that Tim does fry (e.g. a vocal teacher who has had correspondence with Melissa Cross, Tim's vocal coach, I assume you have heard of her).
If you find some reliable sources that actually prove your statement... please, I would like to know.

We're not talking about the headvoicy pencil-in-mouth beginner thing that's all over youtube. This is the much more advanced, stronger and deeper version, that the majority of successful screamers employ. (+there's a major difference between plain vocal fry and actual fry screaming)
there was a time when I also thought that "lows are falsecord & highs are fry". That was way before I could fry properly, when I learned it I immediately realised the "truth". I'm pretty sure this is a common misconception among those who fail at producing low or powerful fry screams. Imo falsecord must not be used regularly in a music performance and is not an option if you want to be able to "scream deep like Jonny from Job For A Cowboy" (standard scene kid stuff), that's kinda like learning autotune instead of learning to sing, it's cheap and you won't necessarily get the desired result.
Oh, and inhales... sooo taboo. they suck, quite literally.

But seriously, this isn't the main topic here. I just used his different sounds as an example of what I wanted to achieve. Frankly I don't give a damn about which techinque he does, I just want to know how it can be done efficiently. If he falsecords then it's his problem (especially since you can get the exact same result with fry). I have more important things to care about.

Some good info here

Oh yes! I think it would be nice to have some examples here too. Like clips of different kinds of screaming with a regular processing chain and one with added saturation. I just might upload some, kinda busy schedule at the moment though.

 

[Morgan C]

Love my saturation on vocals. Norther/In Flames ABUSE it.

That and layering a ton of vocals (Joey did like 16 takes once and it sounded br00t4l).

 

[kladdkaka]

Hahaha, I knew it would come to this!

The only reliable sources I know have stated that Tim does fry (e.g. a vocal teacher who has had correspondence with Melissa Cross, Tim's vocal coach, I assume you have heard of her).
If you find some reliable sources that actually prove your statement... please, I would like to know.

On their dvd he says he never had any form of lessons regarding his screaming. I know as i lay dying are listed as clients on melissa's homepage so I'm guessing it's either josh or jordan. Last time I saw them live, even phil was doing backup screams, could might as well be him.

Could you please name a specific part of a song on the newer albums where you are sure that he's fry screaming.

 

[Lasse Lammert]

loads and loads and loads of analog 1176.
gives you the saturation and compression.

just dicovered very recently how much I love that thing

 

[-JohanFrisk-]

On their dvd he says he never had any form of lessons regarding his screaming. I know as i lay dying are listed as clients on melissa's homepage so I'm guessing it's either josh or jordan. Last time I saw them live, even phil was doing backup screams, could might as well be him.

Could you please name a specific part of a song on the newer albums where you are sure that he's fry screaming.

well, pretty much all of the higher, sustained screams.
for example the "yeaaaaah"s on Meaning in Tragedy (0:14, 0:42, 1:21, 1:43, 1:52, 2:00, 2:05, 2:16, 2:24 etc)
the same goes for the newer stuff (The Sound of Thruth - 0:33; Beyond Our Suffering - the "yeaaah"s again...)
again, I fear it could be falsecord screaming. that would probably make lots of damage it would be healthier to fry for stuff like that but if falsecord is his thing then i won't try to discourage him
edit: done a lot of research, i'd say it's a 60% probability that he does falsecord screaming. but still no proof.

I wasn't really refering to Melissa Cross directly but a dutch or belgian vocal coach (I can't find her website now but it said "Tim Lambesis" and not just AILD. will edit if i find it)

 

[-JohanFrisk-]

oh, just to make things crystal clear.
I just call the techniques "fry screaming" and "falsecord screaming"
here's a quick list of other common names:
Fry - "screaming", screeching...
Falsecord - "sigh", grunting, growling, death...
note: "screaming" and "growling" are used for both techniques depending on how low it sound