Should Mexican Immigrants Be Allowed Into The U.S Freely

[Unfaithfully Metalhead]

OH NO ENGLISH IS HARD GOD FORBID PEOPLE HAVE TO WORK FOR ANYTHING AMIRITE

Then learn spanish or some other language then... no reason you shouldn't. Afterall you are a hard worker right? Should be easy for you then.

 

[Valerie]

Then learn spanish or some other language then... no reason you shouldn't. Afterall you are a hard worker right? Should be easy for you then.

As soon as it becomes the most wide-spoken language in this country, you got it.

 

[Unfaithfully Metalhead]

As soon as it becomes the most wide-spoken language in this country, you got it.

It will be in the next generation so might as well get a head start.http://www.industryweek.com/ReadArticle.aspx?ArticleID=17082

Got it?.

 

[Vimana]

Most do not communicate with each other to begin with unless they absolutely have to. They keep to themselves.

No offense but I do not know where you have been? But that already exists. "ethnic communities" i mean.

Yes, but they're usually within the same town or city as people who speak other languages.

 

[Unfaithfully Metalhead]

Yes, but they're usually within the same town or city as people who speak other languages.

The majority yes, but there is a minority that doesn't like my parents. But depends where you live also. Some states like Texas, Cali , Florida, and NY will have large ethnic communities while other states say like Tennessee and surrounding states do not.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

And no this will not tear the country apart. That is just a myth that is spoon fed to you by bigots and politicans and you are falling right into it.

Actually it can tear the country apart, but not because of the stupid "destroying our good White culture" argument. If more people come here than there are jobs, it could do either or both of the following:

1) lower the de facto wages of many unskilled jobs, thus reducing the quality of life for the entire demographic of people who work those jobs

2) disrupt the lives of people who already have a living in the U.S., which will create more suffering than there would be if those without jobs remained jobless

Again, this whole argument assumes that there is nothing being done about population control (the real source of this problem), so the available solutions aren't pretty. No matter what we do, there are going to be people starving to death as long as we have more people than there are jobs for. But in the meantime we might as well do what we can to protect the livings of people who already have jobs, because if we don't, we're basically just telling all unskilled workers in the entire country, "Hey, enjoy your job while it lasts, because it could be swiped away from you at any moment."

 

[Unfaithfully Metalhead]

Actually it can tear the country apart, but not because of the stupid "destroying our good White culture" argument. If more people come here than there are jobs, it could do either or both of the following:

1) lower the de facto wages of many unskilled jobs, thus reducing the quality of life for the entire demographic of people who work those jobs

2) disrupt the lives of people who already have a living in the U.S., which will create more suffering than there would be if those without jobs remained jobless

Again, this whole argument assumes that there is nothing being done about population control (the real source of this problem), so the available solutions aren't pretty. No matter what we do, there are going to be people starving to death as long as we have more people than there are jobs for. But in the meantime we might as well do what we can to protect the livings of people who already have jobs, because if we don't, we're basically just telling all unskilled workers in the entire world, "Hey, enjoy your job while it lasts, because it could be swiped away from you at any moment."

This same argument about jobs and such was said during the Industrial Age with the immigrants of those times (irish, italians, poles, jews etc.)and if you haven't noticed it was proven wrong over time.Made the country bigger and stronger if anything. Same argument can be said about union and non-union jobs and on and on. All countries have problems but to blame immigrants only for such problems is to ignore the real cause of any problem and it's solution that is fair for all.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

First off, our country does not need to be any bigger.

Second, how is letting literally everyone who needs a job in here going to make the country stronger? And if the answer is by putting our country in a Darwinistic class-wide battle for unskilled jobs, that's not a humane way of making our country stronger.

You seem to be assuming that enough of today's illegal immigrants are going to be starting their own businesses that it will balance out the extra burden of people seeking work, which is pretty flawed reasoning - especially if you're using the Industrial Age as an analogy, since the relatively low cost of real estate back then made it much easier for people to start a business.

Also, I was not "blaming immigrants" in any way. I was pointing out the obvious fact that an overpopulated country cannot support all of the people in it. If there simply aren't enough jobs here for everyone who's trying to immigrate, we should not make the lives of people who already have a job miserable by putting their jobs in jeopardy.

 

[cookiecutter]

Illegal immigrants do have money. Sure, most of them don't have much, most likely, but they wouldn't be here if they found that they couldn't make any money here. It doesn't really matter why you broke a law 9,999 out of 10,000 times. A (minor) crime of desperation is still a crime, and should not simply be waved off as nothing. It also would not be fair to leave the illegal immigrants here now unpunished and then to crack down on future illegal immigrants. I see nothing with imposing a fine on these people for breaking the law and posing a threat the national security when what they get in return is a path to citizenship, and in that, a path to a much better life. There are so many different ways in which a fine could be employed that to suggest that it wouldn't work is kind of a cop-out. I mean, fuck, you can wait until they get a job and then create some kind of illegal immigrant tax to get the fine.

Now that you've elaborated, this seems like a very reasonable idea.

what european countries have an extreme immigration problem by a country filled with poverty?

Every single one practically.

I'm not posing a solution to this dilemma, I'm just pointing out that free immigration is a bad idea because of it.

Well I don't think free immigration is that great of an idea either. I just think freeer immigration would be good.

 

[Unfaithfully Metalhead]

First off, our country does not need to be any bigger.

We'll I don't mean geographically. Just economically. Right now were in reverse.

Second, how is letting literally everyone who needs a job in here going to make the country stronger? And if the answer is by putting our country in a Darwinistic class-wide battle for unskilled jobs, that's not a humane way of making our country stronger.

Not humane but it has been our history and nothing will change that even though we turn a blind eye to it. And it will make this country stronger the way it did back in the Industrial age.

You seem to be assuming that enough of today's illegal immigrants are going to be starting their own businesses that it will balance out the extra burden of people seeking work, which is pretty flawed reasoning - especially if you're using the Industrial Age as an analogy, since the relatively low cost of real estate back then made it much easier for people to start a business.

No, not necessarily starting their own businesses though alot of them do that in time. They work alot of off the books jobs and save their money to start a biz. The asians are notorious for that as are Indians. But I will say that alot of the biggest corporations in this country were started by immigrants. For example, Bank of America is widely considered started and envisioned by an italian immigrant by the name of Amadeo Giannini in San Francisco 1904. He started merging his bank with others and grew it until it became the behemoth it is today. But that is just one example of many. This country was built on the notion that it is a land of opportunity and that doesn't always mean working for others but starting your own business. As for Real Estate then and now. You are basing that RE was low cost in those days by today's dollars and not 1800's dollars. In their dollars RE was not cheap/low cost. If that were true then everyone in those days would of owned RE, wouldn't you agree?

Also, I was not "blaming immigrants" in any way. I was pointing out the obvious fact that an overpopulated country cannot support all of the people in it. If there simply aren't enough jobs here for everyone who's trying to immigrate, we should not make the lives of people who already have a job miserable by putting their jobs in jeopardy.

Our country is not overpopulated. China and India is overpopulated lol That is why China has their 1 child rule. And there is enough jobs in this country. It's just that certain jobs no one wants. That is where immigrants come in. They do not "take" these jobs away. They are simply willing to work the jobs no matter how harsh the jobs are and underpaid they are. They do jobs that the majority of Americans wouldn't even want to touch. Like I said we are not overpopulated. In fact a study came out that i already linked Lady Valerie to that shows white americans are dying faster then they are birthing new ones. While the hispanics are the opposite. So I would say in that regards it balances out each other just that in the future hispanics will be the majority and white less so. Thus were definetly not overpopulated. So much of this country is barely inhabited.

 

[cookiecutter]

Good point. It's hard to argue that the United States is overpopulated when it is larger than China and India yet had fewer than a third of their people.

 

[Unfaithfully Metalhead]

Good point. It's hard to argue that the United States is overpopulated when it is larger than China and India yet had fewer than a third of their people.

Were bigger then China geographically? I have to look at a map again lol

 

[Zephyrus]

If its is bigger, it's because of Alaska, which is mostly unpopulated.

 

[The Ozzman]

China: The total area is estimated to be 9,596,960 km²
US: The total area is estimated to be 9,826,630 km²

 

[Unfaithfully Metalhead]

If its is bigger, it's because of Alaska, which is mostly unpopulated.

Probably by a nose... bigger i mean... but I always thought they were bigger geographically...

 

[Vimana]

America is pretty unpopulated for its size. Less than half of the west is populated.

 

[Zephyrus]

The Gobi desert makes up a good portion of China.

 

[cookiecutter]

The United States is the third largest country area wise behind Russia and Canada. I thought this was common knowledge. After looking at wikipedia apparently there is some dispute, but China would only be bigger if they included Taiwan and a bunch of other places they pretend to own.

 

[Zephyrus]

Population as a function of area is irrelevant since you must take habitable area into account. Canada and Russia are only that big because most of them are inhospitable.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

We'll I don't mean geographically. Just economically. Right now were in reverse.

I'm not really sure what you're getting at with this, but I'm more interested in your other points for now.

Not humane but it has been our history and nothing will change that even though we turn a blind eye to it. And it will make this country stronger the way it did back in the Industrial age.

Population control policies would damn well change that. And regardless of how much the idea upsets people, it's far more humane than just letting population get out of control and having people starving to death and fighting tooth-and-nail for jobs. I think the argument you're making here is a morally irresponsible one.

No, not necessarily starting their own businesses though alot of them do that in time. They work alot of off the books jobs and save their money to start a biz. The asians are notorious for that as are Indians. But I will say that alot of the biggest corporations in this country were started by immigrants. For example, Bank of America is widely considered started and envisioned by an italian immigrant by the name of Amadeo Giannini in San Francisco 1904. He started merging his bank with others and grew it until it became the behemoth it is today. But that is just one example of many. This country was built on the notion that it is a land of opportunity and that doesn't always mean working for others but starting your own business. As for Real Estate then and now. You are basing that RE was low cost in those days by today's dollars and not 1800's dollars. In their dollars RE was not cheap/low cost. If that were true then everyone in those days would of owned RE, wouldn't you agree?

If you really want to settle this point, we need statistics and not examples. But I don't think it's that hard to understand that there's less land available for purchase now than there was in the 1800s since there are more people now. That would mean real estate is more expensive today, and though I'm not an expert on this topic, I would assume that higher real estate costs make it more difficult to start a business.

Our country is not overpopulated. China and India is overpopulated lol That is why China has their 1 child rule. And there is enough jobs in this country. It's just that certain jobs no one wants. That is where immigrants come in. They do not "take" these jobs away. They are simply willing to work the jobs no matter how harsh the jobs are and underpaid they are. They do jobs that the majority of Americans wouldn't even want to touch. Like I said we are not overpopulated. In fact a study came out that i already linked Lady Valerie to that shows white americans are dying faster then they are birthing new ones. While the hispanics are the opposite. So I would say in that regards it balances out each other just that in the future hispanics will be the majority and white less so. Thus were definetly not overpopulated. So much of this country is barely inhabited.

I did not say our country is overpopulated. I said that it would become overpopulated if we let tens of millions of people without jobs come over here. We need to tailor our immigration policies to the availability of jobs. If we allow more people than we have jobs, we're only allowing countries with overpopulation problems to spread the same problem to our own country.