Sign of weakness or display of courage?

[RETIREDTrapped]

There will always be people who've had it worse than you, and have fought to stay alive, and have succeeded.

You are still not seeing the point. It's not about 'someone having it worse than you', for you have no idea the depth of emotion that comes about through ture sadness.

Funny how you guys are assuming I've never been depressed. Oh, yeah, I'm in my 30's and I've ALWAYS had tweety birds in my blue skies. lol... Yeah, my life has been peaches and cream - I've had a gold spoon in my mouth from infancy, and I never, EVER experienced depression. So everything I'm talking is kaka, since you THINK I've never experiened it....hehehe..that's funny.

The fact that you do not understand what I or Belial have just said shows that you HAVEN'T felt what we have both felt. You seem to think that 'Depression' is simply 'Depression'... but that is not true. There is so many different reasons, extents and complications that come with depression, it is not a black-and-white thing.

Sure, you've been sad before, but not to the point where you have no escape, and the walls are closing in on you. So no, you haven't been 'depressed'...

 

[Kushantaiidan]

Suicide is a couragous step to take revenge on those that caused you so much pain.

The world hurt me, Why should I not hurt the world back?

 

[Kushantaiidan]

Jannet, you don't know what it is like to have NO HOPE.. do you?

 

[RETIREDTrapped]

Suicide is a couragous step to take revenge on those that caused you so much pain.

The world hurt me, Why should I not hurt the world back?

That is not even HALF true. Maybe for your thinking, yes, that is what you beleive, but like i said, no two people can experience the same depression as each other.

Depression isn't a 'Rebellion', and isn't a 'cool' thing like it was for Kurt Cobain's thralls of teenybopper fans.

The world keeps hurting you, and the only way to stop being hurt, is to end your life. THAT is depression.

 

[slingblade]

i've had no picnic of a fucking life myself, and on more than one occasion, i've been DEAD serious about wanting to die. had a gun to my head once, didn't do it. at one time in my life i struggled with finding a suitable way to perform the act. for long periods of time it would be all i thought about. months even. the things that were going through MY head were things like, "who the fucks gonna miss me anyway" i truly believed that. i've been in so much pain i literally would drop to the ground and beg GOD for death. i would go to bed at night and pray not to wake up. and then in the morning when i did wake i would be pissed at GOD because i was still here. i'm not gonna go into my personal story of woe, but i HAVE been there. and to this day, i know the reason i DIDN'T do it. because i'm too much of a pussy to do it. i didn't have the fuckin' balls to do it. if i did i wouldn't be typing this believe me. so like trapped said, if you aint been there you don't know shit.

 

[Sullen Jester]

Originally posted by Trapped


That is not even HALF true. Maybe for your thinking, yes, that is what you beleive, but like i said, no two people can experience the same depression as each other.

Depression isn't a 'Rebellion', and isn't a 'cool' thing like it was for Kurt Cobain's thralls of teenybopper fans.

The world keeps hurting you, and the only way to stop being hurt, is to end your life. THAT is depression.

A form of depression, yes.

But his post makes me think deeply.

What I can put in a thousand words, his thoughts can outweigh in two lines.
Such is the genius of Kushantaiidan.

 

[Obyeybyeogone]

I bet almost everyone here has thought about doing it (to some extent at least) I know I have, I don't have anyone I really care about, and if I did kill myself I would cease to exist, I don't really care if I cease to exist. But I'd rather live, so meh.

 

[Kushantaiidan]

Originally posted by Trapped


That is not even HALF true. Maybe for your thinking, yes, that is what you beleive, but like i said, no two people can experience the same depression as each other.

Depression isn't a 'Rebellion', and isn't a 'cool' thing like it was for Kurt Cobain's thralls of teenybopper fans.

The world keeps hurting you, and the only way to stop being hurt, is to end your life. THAT is depression.

My point is that on one occasion where I considered suicide, it was due to pain, and also, I felt like doing it to make the people who hurt me guilty. Like kinda like saying "See what you have done?"

But that was like 10 years ago. I don't feel like that anymore.

 

[Belial]

Originally posted by Jannet
Funny how you guys are assuming I've never been depressed. Oh, yeah, I'm in my 30's and I've ALWAYS had tweety birds in my blue skies. lol... Yeah, my life has been peaches and cream - I've had a gold spoon in my mouth from infancy, and I never, EVER experienced depression. So everything I'm talking is kaka, since you THINK I've never experiened it....hehehe..that's funny.

I'm quite sure you've been depressed before, but talk like you obviously have never been in deep emotional pain. With all due respect, you are making very stereotypical assumptions on people who contemplate suicide.

Myself for example. I wanted to die. I tried and failed, but I do value my life and life in general. Which I guess is why I'm still alive right now and didn't attempt suicide again. Understand, that there is no "getting over it". Yes, you can change things for the better in your life, but you can't wake up one day and decide "I'm not going to be depressed anymore." If it were that easy nobody would be sad or suicidal.

Using your physical pain analogy, if you suffer an accident, and get a broken leg, can you decide the next day that you will go for a walk without your wheel chair or crutches? It's the same with emotional pain. It cripples you, it hurts, and yes it does scar.

I did research on suicide shortly after my filed attempt, and you know what was one of the first things the sites I read said? NEVER imply that you can "get over it" or tell the person to "snap out of it" or "cheer up". It's been a couple of years, but perhaps I can find some of those sites again for reference in this thread.

 

[Jannet]

Originally posted by Sullen Jester


I don't know about the others, but to me, you speak as though you were the person observing from a distance.

Well I'm not...and since we are all being open here, and you shared your story, Belial, I will share mine.

5 - 7 years old - wife to (very close) family member
10 years - commited to institution for cutting pentagram in hand (1 month) - then at 11 years, threatened to commit suicide so committed again for 3 months.
12- 14 years - committed to another institution due to depression and behavioral problems -stayed 2 years - given thorazine and that pee drug..can't remember what is was...(made to have abortion at this time).
14 - 16 years - committed to group home system (kicked out of my mother's house for abuse)...*and in this stage of my life it was very horrible. I was jumped by a bunch of girls, kicked in the face, spat at, cut in the face with a bottle, and I was EXTREMELY promiscuous...
16 years - ran away from group home system
17 years - realized what an idiot I was and decided to clean up my act - joined CVC (a program for kids that helped you get a scholarship - got a stipend of $100 every week, so got a tiny $50 week room in Harlem.
And now? Bought my own place, have a husband, a child, a great job, mom/daughter relationship is doing great (not without hard work (especially on my part), and I'm very happy. So you tell me I'm observing from a distance.. pffft..

 

[RETIREDTrapped]

I sympathize with everything you have been through Jannet, you are much stronger than me for sharing that...

...But the fact that you could pull yourself out of your hole (like i also did) means that you weren't hopeless, and that you didn't feel as though there was no escape.

 

[Kushantaiidan]

How I feel now is different. I have no future. I have no career, I've quit everything, I have become so letharghic, the house is a mess, I am so far in debt, I have a terrible fear of working,a nd have been unemployed for 6 months, and I DON'T wnat a job.

That's my physical situation.

My mental situation is quite misanthropic and very superiority complexish.... (um) so I don't care, and I beleive everyone should give me everything, because I am me, and that is all that matters to me, therefor everyone is below me, therefor everyone owes me everything pleasurable, and they should take away anything that is unpleasant.

But people don't see it like that, and they never will, therefor I have no hope.

I don't make any sense.

 

[Jannet]

Originally posted by Trapped
I sympathize with everything you have been through Jannet, you are much stronger than me for sharing that...

...But the fact that you could pull yourself out of your hole (like i also did) means that you weren't hopeless, and that you didn't feel as though there was no escape.

I still can't see where there's a situation when there's "no escape." We all have the ability to make choices! What kept me going was my will to live, to see what I could be in the future, to see if I could ever be loved by a person - all these could have's are "hopes". If a person doesn't have that will, it is their choice to NOT have that will. Will is a drive - anyone can have the drive - they choose to have it or not. It comes from within. And this drive begins in the mind - your will to get out of your rut is your drive to do so. Drive, ambition, will...these are all factors that are choices. If you are depressed, and you choose to do nothing about it but be sad all the time, and not get help, then it's your choice! I am also not reducing the importance of support from family and friends. But it all starts with YOU. Your choice: do I not give up and live, or do I give up and die? You have those choices, NO one makes you decide. Only YOU.

 

[Obyeybyeogone]

Very, very well said Jannet.

That's what keeps me going basically, to see where i'll get in life. I won't pretend to have had a hard life, but there were times when I just didn't care, I had nothing I wanted, because I wanted nothing, and I thought about suicide, but I knew subconciously that i'd get over it, I did. Now whenever I start thinking like that, I just put on some music and hope good for the future.

 

[RETIREDTrapped]

I still can't see where there's a situation when there's "no escape." We all have the ability to make choices! What kept me going was my will to live, to see what I could be in the future, to see if I could ever be loved by a person

Basically, i found 'that person'. The one person that i ever felt 'connected' to, my 'soul-mate' if you will... She died about five years ago, right in front of me, and there was nothing i could do. That is helplessness. What was i to do after that? There was no one for me to talk to, there was no one there to catch me when i fell, the person that i loved, i truly love, was gone, and no amount of 'strength' and 'will to live' could have helped me.

This is terrible to say, and i feel terrible to even use this as a reference, for i would never wish anyone to go through that same thing...: Imagine that your daughter and your husband were suddenly killed; one day they are there, and the next there is nothing. You can only imagine how hopless that would feel, but trust me, there is no escape.

 

[Belial]

Originally posted by Jannet


I still can't see where there's a situation when there's "no escape." We all have the ability to make choices! What kept me going was my will to live, to see what I could be in the future, to see if I could ever be loved by a person - all these could have's are "hopes". If a person doesn't have that will, it is their choice to NOT have that will. Will is a drive - anyone can have the drive - they choose to have it or not. It comes from within. And this drive begins in the mind - your will to get out of your rut is your drive to do so. Drive, ambition, will...these are all factors that are choices. If you are depressed, and you choose to do nothing about it but be sad all the time, and not get help, then it's your choice! I am also not reducing the importance of support from family and friends. But it all starts with YOU. Your choice: do I not give up and live, or do I give up and die? You have those choices, NO one makes you decide. Only YOU.

It is not as simple as that. You don't simply "choose" to have the "will" and that's it. You can no more "choose" to have hope as I can "choose" to grow a few inches taller. Hope comes with time and experience.

Like with the story you shared, circumstances made you realize the trouble you were in and those circumstances gave you hope. With me, my failure to die and some other circumstanses, which I won't get into, gave me enough hope to live on. Although it appears to be a choice, it isn't. One gains hope through experience and circumstance. You don't simply choose it on the spot.

As I said before, if it were as simple as that we'd have a lot less depressed people around.

 

[RETIREDTrapped]

do I not give up and live, or do I give up and die?

It is not that simple.

What good is a life if there is no one to share it with...? What good is a life if there is no one to love, and be loved by...?

This 'event' in my life has shaped who i am. I beleive that there is no god, for if there was; i would have no faith in him, for he took my life from me, basically I died when melissa died.

I know that i can never find someone like her again, she is gone, and that will forever be a big 'hole' in me.

Even though I am not the same person I was, and the life that i had ended at that point, i have started again, but that day is like my shadow, it impacts everything in my life. To be honest, i am scared of relationships with females, i am so scared that i will lose someone again, and i will not be able to take it.

 

[Jannet]

It's not as simple as you're making me out to be. It's very difficult to explain. Let me try again.

will: 1. the mental faculty by which one DELIBERATELY CHOOSES A COURSE OF ACTION; volition. 2. Self-control; self-discipline. 3. A DESIRE, PURPOSE, OR DETERMINATION. (dictionary definitions)

It is a desire, purpose. These are all innate, and choices you make. Something you desire, or if you have a purpose in life, you've chosen what desire you want, and what purpose you want to reach in life. It is a choice as is determination, ambition, and the like.

 

[RETIREDTrapped]

Yes, you can choose to have will, as you can choose to have determination, ambition, and the like.

What if all your dreams have died? What if you have your ambitions taken from you? Then where do you get that will from.

 

[Jannet]

Then replace them with new ones. I'm sorry to sound so cut and dry, but what else can you do? I'm sure a person who has dreams did not think up every single dream they could have. If the dream they wanted seems to look like it's not coming true, pick another dream. How can your ambitions be taken away from you? If you have ambition to do something, NOTHING will get in the way to your goal. That is why it's called ambition.

Ambition: a strong desire to achieve something. 2. The object or goal desired.

There are many different roads to take to achieve a specific goal. Take one road, and if that one is a dead end, back track and try the next one. Usually there is a never-ending supply of roads, and you'll find the right one. If for some reason they all lead to dead ends, find a new ambition, and start again. A good analogy of this is college life. A person who has no clue what they want to do in life will take many different courses to find out what they're good at, what they want to do. And it could be 2-3 years later, even 10 years later, when they find the thing that clicks. Within this time they could have taken hundreds of different courses. This is very frustrating, but because every time you fail is a step closer to success..you keep pushing on.