Slobodan Milosevic's Untimely Death.

mentalmeltdown said:
As someone who was born and lived in former Yugoslavia from 1979 until 1995, I can affirm beyond all doubt that it was Milosevic who "started it all". Sure, the political situation started deteriorating after Tito's death in 1980. Milosevic rode the wave of surging nationalism by flinging fuel to the fire with now legendary quotes which were more or less based on same ones used by any state leader seeking to demonize his opponents. Croatian leader Tudjman had pretensions towards parts of Bosnia as well but, he did not have the JNA (Yugoslav national army) at his disposal in every single republic and 2 autonom provinces like Milosevic had.

As for the suffering, there are facts and mutliple proofs such as mass graves (Srebrenica), concentration camps, mass rapes of bosnian (read: muslim) women by Serbian and JNA troops. Things like these haven't happened in so big a scale in Croatia and Kosovo.

And now to the part where I mostly disagree with you:

Quote: "So, just as many Serbs where expelled from their homes, especially now in Kosovo. Remember, too, that some of the worst fighting in Bosnia happened during the Croatian/ Muslim conflict in areas near Mostar. Of course, much of that wasn't reported because you couldn't work in Slobodan directly....."

First of all, saying there were Serbs in Croatia is like saying there were Californians living in Nevada. The case is rather people that you refer to as "serbs" comprise croatians, bosnians or serbs (from Serbia!) of orthodox faith. People always make the same mistake when talking about this conflict: Bosnian is a nationality - a person who was born or lives in Bosnia. As a Bosnian you can be of Catholic, Muslim, Orthodox, Jewish, Buddhist, Taoist or whatever faith you want to be.

of course, there were Serbs expelled from their homes. As for Croatia, the orthodox people in those regions invaded parts of croatia and made for their own independent republic. Were the croats gonna stand for it? Of course not! Were there huge exodus of people from the so-called independent republic of Krajina? to a much lesser extent than it was made to be by the serbian propaganda.

As for some of the worst fighting in Bosnia, while it's true that muslims and catholics fought around Mostar, you should also tell about the terrible fighting where the JNA, and serb and bosnian orthodox paramilitaries attacked civilians (many instances: Sarajevo, Zepa, Srebrenica, Bratunac, Visegrad, Gorazde, etc.) as well as the fights in the north to maintain "the corridor" arround the city of Brcko, which was the heaviest front in Bosnia and of biggest importance after Sarajevo.

There it goes. A big fucking post about a totally Anthrax unrelated topic but whatcha gonna do... I feel strongly about the subject having lost most of my youth in the war and having seen the Goebbelsian serbian propaganda directed against Bosnia and me and my people (for the record, I'm a bosnian catholic).

Cheers. John Bush rules. I'm a reunion basher.

Bye!


I am not going to debate you about how's too blame because you have seem to have an axe to grind and slightly nationalistic. But when you compare Serbs in Croatia to Californians in Nevada it's silly. If you are from there then you know that 'Serbian" and Croatian" function both as national and ethnic/ and or tribal designations. Hence, the entantaglement between nation and ethnicity became pretty horrifying in Bosna. The problem in Bosna is a long history of entaglements between religion, ethnicity, and nationality. Milosevic, by the time he came along, fueled the fires, helped foster the ethno-national fracturing of Yugoslavia by helping to provide moral and financial support for the Bosnian Serb army, the Croatian Serb army, and of course used his own police to kill ethnic Albanians in Kosovo.

Just as in Kosovo, a large ethinic Albanian population always lived there, a large ethnic Serbian population lived in Croatia. No one but a Serb nationalist would deny the existence of ethnic Albanians in Kosovo, and no one but a Croatian nationalist would deny the existence of ethnic Serbs in Croatia.
 
Ironically the two biggest nationalist leaders of 20th century Europe - Hitler and Milosevic - left their countries being as small as never before (or at least since a long time).
 
Schurl said:
Ironically the two biggest nationalist leaders of 20th century Europe - Hitler and Milosevic - left their countries being as small as never before (or at least since a long time).


That is pretty much why I never trust a politician who talks about patriotism or the importance of national unity.
 
ZeeZooZum said:
I am not going to debate you about how's too blame because you have seem to have an axe to grind and slightly nationalistic. But when you compare Serbs in Croatia to Californians in Nevada it's silly. If you are from there then you know that 'Serbian" and Croatian" function both as national and ethnic/ and or tribal designations. Hence, the entantaglement between nation and ethnicity became pretty horrifying in Bosna. The problem in Bosna is a long history of entaglements between religion, ethnicity, and nationality. Milosevic, by the time he came along, fueled the fires, helped foster the ethno-national fracturing of Yugoslavia by helping to provide moral and financial support for the Bosnian Serb army, the Croatian Serb army, and of course used his own police to kill ethnic Albanians in Kosovo.

Just as in Kosovo, a large ethinic Albanian population always lived there, a large ethnic Serbian population lived in Croatia. No one but a Serb nationalist would deny the existence of ethnic Albanians in Kosovo, and no one but a Croatian nationalist would deny the existence of ethnic Serbs in Croatia.

There's no debate to be had because the balance is tipped - Milosevic has the bigger part of the blame. yeah I know, i catch myself using those expressions i.e. serb and croat when I am actually talking about a bosnian orthodox or bosnian catholic... we balkaneers tend to be incongruous at times :) . I actually agreed with most of your previous post it's just that I wanted to bring into perspective an opinion of someone who has actually lived there and saw both (or three) sides of the story. I'm not denying the existence of ethnic "serbs", let's call them that - in fact they are Croatians of orthodox faith who have lived on the soil of the republic known as Croatia for several hundreds years. However, there are great lengths to go from living as a religious minority in a country and claim your status to be recognized as opposed to separating yourself as an independent state and claiming parts of Croatia to be "Serbian soil" and arming yourself up to your teeth, bombing civilians in the process (Vukovar, Zadar) to name a few...

But, hey, life is beautiful, why bother with such things now after the fact? Let's enjoy some metal, have some alcohol and fuck pretty chicks huh?
 
Thrillho said:
Wait, I am confused here - are some of you upset he died? Or am I just that fucked up?

I am not. I would have liked to take a big dump on his fat fucking face....
 
Thrillho said:
Wait, I am confused here - are some of you upset he died? Or am I just that fucked up?

I'm upset that he died because his trial wasn't over thus, he wasn't proven guilty - which he was. He now becomes some kind of a martyr for certain serbs.... sad.

Unfortunately, the seeds of evil he has sown (how poetic! eh?) will continue to make good harvests years after he's been consumed by worms.

Me too I would've liked taking a dump on his face only I'm afraid he might have actually liked it. Burn in hell Slobodan!
 
mentalmeltdown said:
As someone who was born and lived in former Yugoslavia from 1979 until 1995, I can affirm beyond all doubt that it was Milosevic who "started it all".

I still live there.

Let me get some things straight.
- I'm not his supporter nor I ever was.
- Slobodan Milošević did a lot bad things (let's say it like that), but most of those things were against "his" own people, Serbs.

Further on, if he wanted "Great Serbia", why was Serbia & Montenegro called Yugoslavia up to 2004?

I really don't wanna go into politics as I hate it, I'll just say that he was a scumbag, but, saying things like "He started it all", that is really pathetic.
 
Boro the Beautiful said:
I still live there.

Let me get some things straight.
- I'm not his supporter nor I ever was.
- Slobodan Milošević did a lot bad things (let's say it like that), but most of those things were against "his" own people, Serbs.

Further on, if he wanted "Great Serbia", why was Serbia & Montenegro called Yugoslavia up to 2004?

I really don't wanna go into politics as I hate it, I'll just say that he was a scumbag, but, saying things like "He started it all", that is really pathetic.

E necemo o politici! hehe... dobrodosao i zivio!

... but:
- Slobodan was, with Tudjman, one of the principal responsible for what happened, it's not pathetic - it's a fact.
 
mentalmeltdown said:
E necemo o politici! hehe... dobrodosao i zivio!
Is that Serbo-Croatian, or Bosnian? Let me guess--"enough about politics...", but what exactly is "e", and is "necemo" "nothing"? and the rest I had to look up. I want to study Slavic languages. So, "dobrodosao" means "welcome" and "živio" means "Cheers/Cheerio"? The root of "dobrodosao" looks like "good" in Czech, "dobrý", and "life" in Czech is "život". Hmmm.

Cool to have some Eastern Europeans here! Used to be some Czechs here...

Anyway, Anthrax=Bush/Ian/Bello/Benante/Caggiano
 
mentalmeltdown said:
Slobodan was, with Tudjman

E, Mili, tu je razlika, trebale su se naći minimalno dve budale, a budala je bilo i previše.

Usput, mislim da je moja prva poruka bila da ovo definitivno nije mjesto za priču o politici, ova tema je trebala biti uklonjena.

:kickass:

***

Drokk, in short, mathematically speaking:
bosnian : serbo-croatian = american : english

"Bosnian" language is a political term, and if you want more information about that, send me a PM, I'll explain it.

Besides that, the translation you got was pretty much correct.

"E" means (is short) for "Hey", just a regular greeting/calling.
"Dobrodosao" is a complex word made out of two words; two words exactly binded, "dobro" (an adjective which means good) and "dosao" (past tense of the verb "doći" which means to come), so that is exactly "welcome"...
"Nećemo o politici" actually means "we won't talk about politics", but used in imperative mode (as here) it should be translated as "Let's not talk about politics..."

And last, we aren't really east europeans, we are more of south central europeans (LA type of thing, if you know what I mean).
:kickass:

And finally, I really don't understand why the fuck people miss Caggiano... WCFYA was a hella-lame produced record, his playing is sloppy and he is a lot uglier than Paul Crook...
 
Boro: thanks for the info. I know, the terms for languages are very politically loaded, and I realised that as I was typing. From what I know all 3 languages derive from the same source. Interesting, with my knowledge of Czech I recognize some words in the beginning of your post but can't quite get it.

I'm surprised you think WCFYA is shittily produced! I don't think his playing is that great, but he has nice tone and vibrato, more than I can say about Spitz.
 
Boro the Beautiful said:
Drokk, in short, mathematically speaking:
bosnian : serbo-croatian = american : english

"Bosnian" language is a political term, and if you want more information about that, send me a PM, I'll explain it.

You could send me a PM about it too. I'm curious to see your explanation.
 
Drokk said:
I'm surprised you think WCFYA is shittily produced! I don't think his playing is that great, but he has nice tone and vibrato, more than I can say about Spitz.

Rob plays fast and definitely has a nice tone but, when it comes to tone it's a matter of taste. Plus, I think his live solos are more interesting than Spitz's - Rob improvises more and it sounds pretty good.
 
mentalmeltdown said:
Rob plays fast and definitely has a nice tone but, when it comes to tone it's a matter of taste. Plus, I think his live solos are more interesting than Spitz's - Rob improvises more and it sounds pretty good.
Agreed! And I liked his solos on 2 Evils; he destroyed the opening of AIR! Blew Spitz's original out of the water.