So THAT'S why we have different languages

[dreaming neon darkspot]

My mom might start listening to Nevermore if they had a singer who looks like Jesus.She might think they are Creed or some type of "Christian rock"band.

 

[ledmag]

Originally posted by Lord of Metal
. Speaking of universe, does anybody think that there could be another one? I was wondering, if there is a God, if maybe he was just the god of this universe and there is another for every universe. Or maybe our God is just the God of the Earth since the Bible fails to mention life in the great beyond. Maybe he is the god of this galaxy.

I have thought that more times than i can count. hahahaha

ON another note, i cnat tell you where, or who wrote it, but there is a part in the bible that kinda can be taken for the explaination of ET's, ,,....it says there arent any. As i said, not in those same words, but i have read the part, and i have asked a few preachers about it.

 

[ledmag]

Originally posted by FFfan1
Nice post ledmag. You had some good points. I can understand what you said about the whole blindly following God thing. And yes, I do agree that at times it does feel like that. Speaking from my own personal experiences, I can honestly say that I did that for probably the first 17 years or so of my life. I followed, and never really questioned why. I'm 20 now, and have done more soul-searching and questioning than I have ever done in my life. I don't blindly follow anymore, but I still believe because I have indeed spent countless hours thinking and contemplating everything I've been taught. And what I believe in makes sense to me.
As far as the whole "God being greedy" thing...I look at that in this way. True, it may seem that God is greedy because He wants us all to himself and wants everything for Himself. But try to think of it like this. Spiritual doctrine dictates that we are all one family, and God is our Father. So in that sense, it's simply a father wanting all of his children to return to Him...like in real life. If a father had his sons and daughters spread out all over the world, he would want them to return eventually so that he could be with them again because he loves them that much. Secondly, with God being jealous...the story you brought up with Abraham and Isaac, I will agree with you that that is a bit extreme. But that did not happen often in the Bible, and that was simply a test. God didn't really want Abraham to kill his son...He just wanted to see if Abraham would obey Him if He gave him an order. That was simply the ultimate question that God placed before him: "If I asked you to sacrifice your only son, would you do it?" But I'm sure there are some of you that probably look at this story and think "There God goes again, giving orders to humans simply because He can." And I respect your views on that.
Now, your point about praying to the saints. Here's the thing: we don't pray TO the saints. We ask them to pray to God for us. The same goes with Mary. It's intercession. It's like when you did something wrong as a kid and you knew your dad would be highly pissed off at you, so you ask your mom to break the news to him to try to make him less angry. This is the same idea. So really, we aren't praying to the saints or to Mary, but we're asking for intercession, or help if you will. Now about the Pope. Well...I have mixed views of him really. A lot of the things he believes in and tries to instill in the Catholic church, I highly disagree with, such as not letting priests marry or not allowing birth control. I admit that the church needs an overhaul and needs to contemporize, but I don't see that happening with JPII in power.
As far as deciding who becomes a saint and who doesn't. There really aren't any set rules for it. It's more of looking at the person's life and what they did. If they made a very significant contribution to the lives of others, then they are considered for canonization. But don't hold me to that, because I'm not totally sure how that works.
You also said something that kind of struck me. You said from what you've read in the Bible, it's damn hard to get into heaven. No offense to you, but to me it sounds like you're taking the Bible literally, and you absolutely cannot do that. The Bible was written by poets who wrote metaphorically, therefore a literal interpretation is going to cause nothing but trouble. In my opinion, it's not as hard to get into heaven as people think it is. Humans aren't perfect. We do fuck up, and God realizes that. It's not totally on what we do, but it's what our attitude and mindframe is when we do it. If we do something wrong and don't feel bad about it or did it to intentionally hurt someone or something, then that's the wrong thing and that's where you get into trouble.
Again, I'm not trying to change anyone's views here. Everyone has their different views on how life should be lived. In my eyes, as long as everyone is treated with respect and not trashed because they think differently, then that's all you need. I'm Catholic and proud of it, but I'm not a blind follower. I'm open to other people's views and enjoy hearing what they have to say. If someone has a question about why I think a certain way, I'll be more than happy to try and explain myself. All I ask is that you treat me with the same respect that I would show you. And so far, as far as all of these posts go, that's been done, and I thank you all for that. \m/

Glad you can look beyond my forward way of speaking. You actually took me for my word.....no flame from me to you.thanks pal.


The blind following::: Glad you dont do that. IMO, God would like to be questioned. I must say, i think the profits were being asked questions they just couldnt give an answer to, so they said dont question. Plus, its easier to control ppl if they dont ask questions.


GREED vs GOD:::Well, i see your point here. It is a good one. BUt, WHen i told my parents i was getting married, dad got this real weird look on his face. ANd he started being mean to my wife to be. He started being mean to me as well. The thing is, up to that point, he and wife to be had gotten on very well. ANyway, in the end, he said he was being a cock bite cause he didnt want to lose me. He had to stop and think, and realize, that thats just how it is. SO he and my wife now get on fine again. BUt anyway, as i said, you ahve a very good point.

TAKING THE BIBLE LITERALLY/Going TO HEVEAN IS HARD OR EASY:::WHen i read the bible, i try to think that there is a god most times. ANd when i read the bible, to tell the truth, i throw out a lot of it. It just doesnt add up. SOme of teh stuff. As i said in my other post to you, iIMO, the bible was written by near retards. SO i never take it literally. I just see the road to heaven as a narrow one, one slip and you fall. ANd the bible does say that only a hand full will enter the gates of gold. In fact, it gives you numbers. (***speaking of gold***....."its easier for a camel to pass threw the eye of the needle, then it is for a rich man to enter the gates, well, whats up with the gates being made of GOLD, pearly, shiney, and the streets of gold? hahaha....poetry? Possible. The desires of teh men who wrote the bible? hmm))))((((the eye of teh needle was a DOOR. Camels had to get on there knees and be led threw it. If the camel had packs on its back, then they had to be removed, thus, it was pretty damn hard for a camel to ......))))))

ISAC and ABE>>Yeah, it was a test, and i knew what it was all about. But IMO, If God knows all, sees all, etc, even before it happens. IT only makes sence to me that god would not have done this for a test, since a test was not needed. I just cant figure out WHY he would have done something like that. And i also dont think that if god wanted someone killed, that he would have a mortal do it. IMO, if he wanted someone killed, then, he would haev sent an angel. WHat im getting at is, Ab should haev known that. COuld Ab have been hearing voices other than God, like voices in his head? I sort of think so. But hey, thats just me. SO, no, i dont think God did it as a joke. I just dont think God spoke to him.


ASKING MARRY AND THE SAINTS....::::Well, i still find that weird. IMO, if i were gonna go religious, I believe one has to ask for himself. Its no use to ask for forgiveness via relaid message. Thats just me. I have read somewhere, and dont know if its true, cause it was in a story, it said that to become a saint, you had to perform 3 miricales. Or 3 very good things. who knows?
Now, dont take this the wrong way. How do you know that MArry, or the saints are in heaven? Theyt could haev fucked up somewhere along the line, before they died, and never got redemption for their sins. Just a question here. IMO, its a good question.

Your last paragraph is EXELLENT!

Just a bit of talk here, related to your reply::: IMO, when i smoke my cig, i dont think about it being bad. BUt if im gonna go for the whole religion thing, than i will not go to hevean smoking. ITs a sin. Im killing myself. SLowly yeah, but killin myself none the less. If you dont know soemthing is bad, or a sin, then IMO your safe, but as soon as you know,,,your in trouble. Just a though from me.

Thanks for the cool reply dude. Give me another one if you dont mind. Hope i didnt make to many mistakes. If there is anything fucked in my reply, let me know, and ill clarify it. ITs too long for me to proof read, i dont have time right now......THANKS.

 

[PlatypusJesus]

"Theyt could haev fucked up somewhere along the line, before they died, and never got redemption for their sins."
Yeah, because no matter how perfect of people they may seem in life, they have thoughts like everyone else. And just like everyone, they have to have evil thoughts. Just because their saints, doesn't change the fact that they are human. All humans have good and evil thoughts. What seperates us, are the ones who implement their thoughts into real life and the ones who keep them thoughts. Hell, now I've gotten off track of what I was going to say. Oh well.

 

[ledmag]

LOM>>It matters not what you were gonna say, cause IMO, what you said makes perfect sence.

Well done my friend.

 

[FFfan1]

Well damn, this is going to take a while to reply to. But I'll do it systematically.
GREED vs. God: That was actually a really interesting story, and it did indeed make me think it over. But here's the thing: I think the reason that you may be having trouble comprehending how God cannot be selfish is that you're placing him in a human context. That's all that we as humans can understand, how a HUMAN would react. I believe that God is higher than all humans (duh, the basis of religion ) and that He is perfect. If we put Him in a human context, then yeah most of the things humans do, we would think that God does as well. We can't fully understand how God can be like that while we are here on earth. Trust me, I don't know how God can be like that. No one can because no one has known it any differently.

TAKING THE BIBLE LITERALLY/GOING TO HEAVEN: Well, you did say one thing in there that actually made me think "Hey, that is true". First, I don't think the Bible was written by retards (haha, although that did get me to laugh). On the contrary, the Bible was written by very learned men and scholars. But again, it was written metaphorically and cannot be taken literally. And I agree with you...some of the stories in the Bible are very hard to believe. But I don't discard them totally. I just kind of shove them to the side. An ex-girlfriend of mine, who was also Catholic (but wasn't nearly as "religious" as me), said that she thinks the story of Noah and the flood was total shit. Her biggest argument with it was that it was simply impossible for Noah to get two of EVERY animal on earth. She was also a Bio major in college like I am, and the scientist in me said "She's got a very good point." And to this day, I still question that. Considering how many species there are on earth, to me that does seem nearly impossible. But then again, maybe I'm not supposed to know. Anyway, the story of the rich man. That was simply Jesus telling people to beware of wealth, because that would draw you away from God and you may start worshipping the money instead of God, which of course is forbidden. But the point about the gates being made of gold...I never really noticed that. It is kind of funny that Jesus wanted us to beware of riches, yet the gates are made of gold and are pearly and all that good stuff. But I think you kind of answered your own question. I think the gates being made of gold was simply the author's view of heaven. Heaven is supposed to be paradise, and everyone has their own view of paradise. So yeah, I think that was probably just poetic on the author's part.

ISSAC AND ABE: Ahhhhhh, the classic paradox of Christianity..."If God knows all, then why does He ask us to do things if He already knows how we will respond?" Well honestly, I don't know how to answer that. Here's the best explanation I can think of: After God told Abraham not to kill Issac, He told him that because he obeyed His command, that He would make Abraham's descendents as numerous as the stars in the sky. If God had just come out and told Abraham that He was going to do that anyway, Abraham would have probably been very confused. I think the test was probably the lead-in used by God to tell Abraham that he was going to have a lot of descendents. Or maybe God did it to make Abraham realize just how committed he was to God. I honestly don't know. But as far as Abraham knowing that God should send an angel to kill someone...there's no way Abraham could have known that. Abraham came in Genesis. The whole thing with the Angel of Death didn't occur until Exodus, the next book of the Old Testament. So I don't think Abraham even knew about angels and such. If he did, maybe it just didn't cross his mind. I don't know. I think really the point of the story is that if you follow God with all of your mind, heart, and soul, then your rewards will be great.

ASKING MARY AND THE SAINTS: A lot of people who question Catholicism do still question why we pray to Mary and the saints. But keep in mind, we don't HAVE to ask for forgiveness through them. We can go straight to the source and ask God Himself for forgiveness if we want to. That's perfectly fine. Praying to Mary and the saints isn't a necessity as praying to God. As far as Mary and the saints being in heaven...well, the Bible says that Mary was taken to heaven. She was one of two people to not die and be taken to heaven (the prophet Elijah being the other). So there is no doubt in my mind that she is in heaven. As far as the saints...you're right. I don't know for sure that the saints are in heaven. For all we know, Hitler could be in heaven too. That's up to God to decide. And I'm sure the saints did screw up down the line because they were human, and humans are imperfect. But the vibe I'm getting from your remark is that you still think that one screw-up is enough to send you to hell. Like, suppose one of the saints yelled at someone and didn't ask forgiveness for it (just an example...I highly doubt that yelling at someone is serious). Well, yeah that's not necessarily the best of things to have done, but that doesn't throw out a lifetime of good deeds and faith that they lived. A few bad deeds here and there are not going to condemn you to an eternity in hell. It's the really bad things like murder and rape and stuff that will send you there.

MY LAST PARAGRAPH: Well, I don't remember what I wrote, but thank you.

Now, for you smoking cigs. That ain't a bad thing dude...religion-wise anyway. Health-wise, yeah you better stop. But you won't be kept out of heaven smoking. Smoking isn't a sin even though it is slowly killing you. Here's how I look at it: while you may be slowly killing yourself, nicotine is also addictive. So once you're addicted, it's hard to stop, and that's not your fault. Like I said, smoking isn't a sin because you're not doing anything really that goes against the teachings of God. If anyone is going to hell because of cigarettes, it would be the tobacco company people that didn't warn of their bad effects even though they knew. That's like saying "Well, people could die from these, but we're not going to tell them because we want to make money." That is definitely a sin in my opinion. But I agree with you 100%. If you don't know something is bad and you do it, then you are safe. I mean, if you didn't realize something was bad and no one really got hurt from it, then there really was nothing you could do about it. And yeah, if and when you do realize that what you've been doing is wrong...well, I wouldn't necessarily say you're in trouble. But as soon as you know, then you better make sure you don't do it anymore because now you know it's wrong. But before you knew, there's nothing you can do about that. It would still be good to ask for forgiveness, but it's not as serious because you didn't know you were doing wrong. But now since you do, it's going to be wrong.

Keep the replies coming if you want to. Again, all I ask is for respect. I respect everyone's views here...even though some of them I may not agree with. I do not plan on flaming anyone, so I would appreciate the same. \m/

 

[neal]

"It is kind of funny that Jesus wanted us to beware of riches, yet the gates are made of gold and are pearly and all that good stuff. But I think you kind of answered your own question. I think the gates being made of gold was simply the author's view of heaven. Heaven is supposed to be paradise, and everyone has their own view of paradise. So yeah, I think that was probably just poetic on the author's part. "

so that means that the author is greedy and worships money? what the fuck do you need gold for in heaven? is he trying to convince people that heaven is good becuase theres gold there? he is using greed to convince people to believe in god.

"I believe that God is higher than all humans "

so does that make him exempt from his own rules? he commits the 7 deadly sins all over the fucking place. kind of hypocritical.

"I think really the point of the story is that if you follow God with all of your mind, heart, and soul, then your rewards will be great. "

yeh after he dicks with you for awhile like that job guy. i dunno, theres a lot of fucked up things going on in that book. too many contradictions. and stories of god doing fucked up things to test peoples faith, which if he was really omnipitent he'd already know the outcome. calling him all powerfull and saying he wants us all back but then saying we're voulnerable to satan and shit? did he give us free will just so some of us could use it not to believe in him and end up getting the boner later? or is it all part of his plan, and those of us that question are just doing our jobs to try to temp those that were slated to be believers? so many questions that cant be answered. (this might seem kind of confrontational but its not, its just my style)
-neal

 

[FFfan1]

Originally posted by neal
"It is kind of funny that Jesus wanted us to beware of riches, yet the gates are made of gold and are pearly and all that good stuff. But I think you kind of answered your own question. I think the gates being made of gold was simply the author's view of heaven. Heaven is supposed to be paradise, and everyone has their own view of paradise. So yeah, I think that was probably just poetic on the author's part. "

so that means that the author is greedy and worships money? what the fuck do you need gold for in heaven? is he trying to convince people that heaven is good becuase theres gold there? he is using greed to convince people to believe in god.

"I believe that God is higher than all humans "

so does that make him exempt from his own rules? he commits the 7 deadly sins all over the fucking place. kind of hypocritical.

"I think really the point of the story is that if you follow God with all of your mind, heart, and soul, then your rewards will be great. "

yeh after he dicks with you for awhile like that job guy. i dunno, theres a lot of fucked up things going on in that book. too many contradictions. and stories of god doing fucked up things to test peoples faith, which if he was really omnipitent he'd already know the outcome. calling him all powerfull and saying he wants us all back but then saying we're voulnerable to satan and shit? did he give us free will just so some of us could use it not to believe in him and end up getting the boner later? or is it all part of his plan, and those of us that question are just doing our jobs to try to temp those that were slated to be believers? so many questions that cant be answered. (this might seem kind of confrontational but its not, its just my style)
-neal

OK, let's see where I should start. Well, starting with the wealth thing. Describing the gates of heaven as gold and pearly doesn't imply at all that the author worships greed and money. Think about it for a second. True, you don't need gold in heaven, and I don't think he was trying to get people to believe that heaven is good because there was gold there. Again, this is the author's vision of heaven. It's possible that the gates of heaven could be made of something a lot more beautiful than gold or pearls...something that doesn't exist on earth. Gold is probably the closest thing the author could think of to describe it. Also, you're associating gold with wealth. True, gold is a symbol of wealth to humans. But first and foremost, gold was simply something of great beauty. Heaven is just that, it's paradise. So what is something that the author can use to describe heavenly beauty? Something that every human can relate beauty to...gold.

As for the seven deadly sins...where does God commit the seven deadly sins? When was the last incident that God committed the sin of lust, gluttony, sloth, pride, greed, or envy? Wrath is the only one that I do believe God has committed, and it even says it in the Bible. It's always talking about God's wrath, so I agree that God probably does commit that sin. But think about when God used His wrath on humans. He only got vengeful when humans distanced themselves so far from His teachings or became so defiant towards Him that the only way He could get them to stop was to have some sort of catastrophe, such as the great flood or Sodom and Gomorrah. God has the power to do whatever He wants, and He could use this more often if he wanted to, but He doesn't. And we as humans always seem to pick out the negative more than the positive when it comes to God. Whenever I start to do that, I just say to myself "You know what...I'm alive only because God has not taken my life yet." He could end your life in a heartbeat if He wanted to, but because you're still here, that to me proves that God is showing you His mercy right there.

ok, I'll admit that you pissed me off a little with the example of Job. That was not totally God's doing. If you read the story again, Satan actually went to God and asked if he could test a human on earth to see just how faithful he would be to God. Satan said that if he was given the power to have his way with a human on earth, that that human would denounce God and curse him. So God said to test Job. He gave Satan the opportunity to do anything he wanted except he couldn't take his life. So Satan took everything that Job had, and yes Job did curse God. God then basically said to Job "Look, you shouldn't question why things are happening to you. If I allowed these things to happen, it's because I have a purpose behind it." And what did God do? He gave Job back everything he had about 40-fold (I can't remember the actual number). It's been promised that if we endure some suffering on earth and remain as faithful as we possibly can, then we will be rewarded with eternal happiness. I don't know about you, but I would be willing to suffer for a little while on earth if it means I get to go to heaven as long as I don't turn my back on God. I'm a firm believer of the belief that things happen for a reason. What that reason is we may never know. But bad things are a part of life, and it's not God "giving you the boner" as you put it. And to be honest with you, most of these bad things happen because of the free will of humans. God gave us free will because He had faith in us that we would use it wisely and make the right decisions with it. If He wanted us to just simply make the right decisions all the time without question, we wouldn't have minds. So in my eyes, the reason behind the suffering of human beings is not God's fault, it's man's fault! If humanity would stop being so self-centered and start realizing that personal gain isn't everything, then most of the shit that happens in the world today probably wouldn't be happening. Tolerance is the key. We as humans have that power, most of us just aren't smart enough to use it for good.

 

[ledmag]

FFFAN>>>>I read your essay, A GOOD one at that. My time is OUT. I will reply tonight after practice. or tomorrow after work.

THANKS.!!!sorry my time short today. IMO, we are having GREAT convo. !!!!

 

[dreaming neon darkspot]

The thing that I dislike about these thread about religon(besides being proven wrong)is that everyone's posts are so damn long and I can't read all of it!

 

[TrueBeliever]

Question I heard from Waking Life:

If God knows everything we do, how can we have free will (which God supposedly gave us)?

 

[PlatypusJesus]

Another thing, God is wrathful, as stated above, and that means he commits sins just like humans. The Bible preaches about forgiveness yet God has wrath. That doesn't make sense. It would also make him fallible and the Bible says that he is infallible. It also says in the Bible that we are a reflection of God. Now, I'm pretty sure that would mean that his personality and nature is a lot like ours'. So, that would mean that he is fallible, but yet again it says that he is infallible. So maybe it just means he looks like us, I would think it would be deeper, but hey. Maybe the writer just needed to put a face on God so humans could maybe begin to understand, so he put a human face on him.
"The thing that I dislike about these thread about religon(besides being proven wrong)is that everyone's posts are so damn long and I can't read all of it!"
I agree with you. I try not to make mine too long.

 

[TrueBeliever]

Mine was very short, although I doubt I will get an answer from anyone.

The explanation for Lord of Metal's post about why God is said to be perfect, yet is evil. God did not create Man in his image, Man created God in his image.

 

[dreaming neon darkspot]

I try not to make my posts too long,as well...but I just do.But there are posts that are twice the length of my posts,like those of that FFfan guy.But when I have something to say,my posts can get pretty damn long.

 

[PlatypusJesus]

"If God knows everything we do, how can we have free will (which God supposedly gave us)?"
I really don't think that God knows everything that we do. You have to remember that the Bible was written by humans. I think that since he gave us free will he can't really predict exactly what we are going to do because we can do anything. Have you seen the movie "Minority Report"? The pre-cogs predicted what people were going to do, but since people have free will, they weren't 100% sure. They were right most of the time, but not everytime. It's like that with God. Again, assuming that he exists.

 

[dreaming neon darkspot]

My question is-Who wrote the Bible?The very first copy of it,the one that was in Latin.Who wrote the damn thing?

 

[PlatypusJesus]

"Man created God in his image."
Yeah, that's the way I see it too. Man decided that if there were a God, it would probably be just like man, because, as we all know, man is extremely intelligent even all knowing. Just go's to show you how great man really is.

 

[PlatypusJesus]

"Who wrote the Bible?The very first copy of it,the one that was in Latin.Who wrote the damn thing?"
I have no idea, but he was a conflicted motherfucker.

 

[PlatypusJesus]

And you know it was a he because if it were a she, heaven would be paved in diamonds. In fact, it would probably just be one giant diamond.

 

[TrueBeliever]

I really don't think that God knows everything that we do.

Don't bother telling me this, I don't believe in the basterd. This question was actually asked my ancient theologens (didn't spell that right) who actually believed in God.

God is a he because God was invented by a very sexist culture.