So THAT'S why we have different languages

[PlatypusJesus]

Do you know George Carlin. He said that you know God is a man because if it was a woman, she wouldn't have fucked things up so badly.

 

[TrueBeliever]

cause the male version is doing such a great job

 

[FFfan1]

ok yeah, I'll admit most of my posts have been long as hell, but if I want to get my point across, I need to cover all grounds as much as I can. But I'll make this short. You guys have good questions, and unfortunately, they're beyond my understanding to give you an answer. But one thing I keep noticing is that you keep saying "If God was like this, then...". When you question just how powerful or knowing God is, you're giving Him humanistic qualities, and that's completely missing the point of what God actually is. In any culture, a god is something that is much more powerful and much more wise than humans. When you perceive a god as something human, then you kind of throw out the definition of what a god really is. But again, if you want to believe the way you do, by all means go ahead. Nothing wrong with thinking a certain way.

 

[PlatypusJesus]

The Bible kind of leads you to believe he has human characteristics though.

 

[ledmag]

FFFAN>>>DOnt let my friends here scare ya off on big replies. I like what we are chatting about. ANd no one is getting mad. Great stuff.

No time still yet., See ya tomorrow.

 

[ledmag]

Originally posted by FFfan1
Well damn, this is going to take a while to reply to. But I'll do it systematically.
GREED vs. God: That was actually a really interesting story, and it did indeed make me think it over. But here's the thing: I think the reason that you may be having trouble comprehending how God cannot be selfish is that you're placing him in a human context. That's all that we as humans can understand, how a HUMAN would react. I believe that God is higher than all humans (duh, the basis of religion ) and that He is perfect. If we put Him in a human context, then yeah most of the things humans do, we would think that God does as well. We can't fully understand how God can be like that while we are here on earth. Trust me, I don't know how God can be like that. No one can because no one has known it any differently.

***Well, actually, i never put him in a human context. Thats why IMO, he should not have the human packaegs of greed etc. But, if one is going to follow the bible, and if one looks at thing as i do, then one would just have to accept the fact that thats just how god is. Just like the fact that he lets things happen that he could stop etc. In other words, as a lot of ppl who cnat answer questions vs the bible would say (not you, cause your the most easy going dude i haev ever came across to tlak with on this subject) ""its gods will", or ""God works in mysterious ways""...I hate those sayings.***

TAKING THE BIBLE LITERALLY/GOING TO HEAVEN: Well, you did say one thing in there that actually made me think "Hey, that is true". First, I don't think the Bible was written by retards (haha, although that did get me to laugh). On the contrary, the Bible was written by very learned men and scholars. But again, it was written metaphorically and cannot be taken literally. And I agree with you...some of the stories in the Bible are very hard to believe. But I don't discard them totally. I just kind of shove them to the side. An ex-girlfriend of mine, who was also Catholic (but wasn't nearly as "religious" as me), said that she thinks the story of Noah and the flood was total shit. Her biggest argument with it was that it was simply impossible for Noah to get two of EVERY animal on earth. She was also a Bio major in college like I am, and the scientist in me said "She's got a very good point." And to this day, I still question that. Considering how many species there are on earth, to me that does seem nearly impossible. But then again, maybe I'm not supposed to know. Anyway, the story of the rich man. That was simply Jesus telling people to beware of wealth, because that would draw you away from God and you may start worshipping the money instead of God, which of course is forbidden. But the point about the gates being made of gold...I never really noticed that. It is kind of funny that Jesus wanted us to beware of riches, yet the gates are made of gold and are pearly and all that good stuff. But I think you kind of answered your own question. I think the gates being made of gold was simply the author's view of heaven. Heaven is supposed to be paradise, and everyone has their own view of paradise. So yeah, I think that was probably just poetic on the author's part.




***By retards, i ment, tcompare them to the minds of today, even the minds of children, we are waaay more advanced today. We know why things happen, and how things happen, and in those days, they just blamed eveything good or bad on GOD, as a test, or punishment. Heathens if you will. Smart for their times, but not by todays standards.
NOAH.........Well, the ones that seem overblown, proably are man. I will give you my take on NOAH. I believe he existed, i believe he constructed a boat, and i believe he carried animals on that boat. WHat i dont buy is that he packed EVERY ANIMAL ON EARTH on this ship. The way i look at it is this: To Noah, the whole world, the earth, was only where he was at, the surrounding areas, maybe within 500 to 1000 mile radius. Thats not too much if you take into coinsideration the size if this planet. So, IMO, he took the animals in his area and thats it. , And the whole earth as we know it today, well, i dont think it was flooded at that time. ONly where he was, SOuth East Asia. You know he built the ark out of Goffer wood right? Well, it only grew in S.E.A.. And, i have researched what archeolagist are saying is the ark. FOund in Turkey. Or whats left of it. It is the exact same cubits etc as described in the bible. And the tribel ppl in the area tell a simialr story as what i described on teh animals he took with him. Plus, there are huge DRUDGE stones in a line behind the ark. In those times, a ship of that size would capsize without a number of huge rocks being hauled in the water, hooked to a rope onto the back o fteh boat. ANyway, those rocks are there still today, with the holes still intact, and they haev writings on them, which *I* believe are from Noah, or his children. The rocks haev 8 crosses one them, plus words (of which i cannot remember). ANyway, there were 8 on the ship in the story in the bible. Oh yeah, some of the rocks say that he only took small animals, ad the GRAZING animals in his area. How he knew a flood was coming, well, thats something i can say hahahaha. That is the wierd part IMO.
WEALTH.....YEs, it is forbidden to worship anything but God, and anyone who has tons of cash, well, you know what happens to them. SO IMO, to be rich, is not a real goo dthing to be in the bible.
GATES....I agree, and yes, i did answer it for myself.******



ISSAC AND ABE: Ahhhhhh, the classic paradox of Christianity..."If God knows all, then why does He ask us to do things if He already knows how we will respond?" Well honestly, I don't know how to answer that. Here's the best explanation I can think of: After God told Abraham not to kill Issac, He told him that because he obeyed His command, that He would make Abraham's descendents as numerous as the stars in the sky. If God had just come out and told Abraham that He was going to do that anyway, Abraham would have probably been very confused. I think the test was probably the lead-in used by God to tell Abraham that he was going to have a lot of descendents. Or maybe God did it to make Abraham realize just how committed he was to God. I honestly don't know. But as far as Abraham knowing that God should send an angel to kill someone...there's no way Abraham could have known that. Abraham came in Genesis. The whole thing with the Angel of Death didn't occur until Exodus, the next book of the Old Testament. So I don't think Abraham even knew about angels and such. If he did, maybe it just didn't cross his mind. I don't know. I think really the point of the story is that if you follow God with all of your mind, heart, and soul, then your rewards will be great.




*****ABE.....You ahev me there, on the angel part. Yep, i had not added that to my equation. Thanks for teh reminder. I agree on the way you described the test, thats how i think a person is SUPPOSED To take it. But i still find it very unamusing and sick. Almost game like. God could have planted any notion in ABES mind with a snap of his finger. But he played him along. Remember, i haev a loose way of comunicating, so dont take offence to me saying he was played along. But i do see that way just a bit. Great paragraph BTW.****



ASKING MARY AND THE SAINTS: A lot of people who question Catholicism do still question why we pray to Mary and the saints. But keep in mind, we don't HAVE to ask for forgiveness through them. We can go straight to the source and ask God Himself for forgiveness if we want to. That's perfectly fine. Praying to Mary and the saints isn't a necessity as praying to God. As far as Mary and the saints being in heaven...well, the Bible says that Mary was taken to heaven. She was one of two people to not die and be taken to heaven (the prophet Elijah being the other). So there is no doubt in my mind that she is in heaven. As far as the saints...you're right. I don't know for sure that the saints are in heaven. For all we know, Hitler could be in heaven too. That's up to God to decide. And I'm sure the saints did screw up down the line because they were human, and humans are imperfect. But the vibe I'm getting from your remark is that you still think that one screw-up is enough to send you to hell. Like, suppose one of the saints yelled at someone and didn't ask forgiveness for it (just an example...I highly doubt that yelling at someone is serious). Well, yeah that's not necessarily the best of things to have done, but that doesn't throw out a lifetime of good deeds and faith that they lived. A few bad deeds here and there are not going to condemn you to an eternity in hell. It's the really bad things like murder and rape and stuff that will send you there.


***Well, no big deal, we look at that different. IT just makes senc eto me that its hard to get to heaven. Like any other really good reward, they dont coem for free. You have to something major to get them usually*****

MY LAST PARAGRAPH: Well, I don't remember what I wrote, but thank you.

***it was great, thats all that matters***

Now, for you smoking cigs. That ain't a bad thing dude...religion-wise anyway. Health-wise, yeah you better stop. But you won't be kept out of heaven smoking. Smoking isn't a sin even though it is slowly killing you. Here's how I look at it: while you may be slowly killing yourself, nicotine is also addictive. So once you're addicted, it's hard to stop, and that's not your fault. Like I said, smoking isn't a sin because you're not doing anything really that goes against the teachings of God. If anyone is going to hell because of cigarettes, it would be the tobacco company people that didn't warn of their bad effects even though they knew. That's like saying "Well, people could die from these, but we're not going to tell them because we want to make money." That is definitely a sin in my opinion. But I agree with you 100%. If you don't know something is bad and you do it, then you are safe. I mean, if you didn't realize something was bad and no one really got hurt from it, then there really was nothing you could do about it. And yeah, if and when you do realize that what you've been doing is wrong...well, I wouldn't necessarily say you're in trouble. But as soon as you know, then you better make sure you don't do it anymore because now you know it's wrong. But before you knew, there's nothing you can do about that. It would still be good to ask for forgiveness, but it's not as serious because you didn't know you were doing wrong. But now since you do, it's going to be wrong.


***I disagree again. If there is a God, then if i dont stop smoking, im gonna go to hell for it. Even if thats all the bad shit i do. Im killing myself and i know it. Its up to me to stop, and it was up to me to start. I knew they were addictive, just as anyone else on earth. I agree, the companies, they are in trouble as well. But that doesnt leave me out. The God in teh bible does not want me to smoke, he doesnt want me to kill myself. IMO, unless you are raised with your parents telling you its ok, and you will not go to hell for it, then anyone who goes the religious road, and smokes, well, IMO, they are making excusses. If a man/woman is hooked on CIGS, i garantee you that if they are out of cigs, and they are on their way to church, or to prayer or what have you, that they will be late due to stoping and buying cigs. Thats putting the cigs 1st. ANyone who is hooked, well, they put the cigs 1st.*****



Keep the replies coming if you want to. Again, all I ask is for respect. I respect everyone's views here...even though some of them I may not agree with. I do not plan on flaming anyone, so I would appreciate the same.


***I agree. If you get flamed, ignore them.
Great essay once again dude.****

\m/

 

[Skreemqueen]

Wow, there are so many incredibly long posts. I wish I had the attention span to read all of them. Maybe some day. However, for right now, I'd like to add my two cents.

I was born into a Roman Catholic family, and raised as such. For eighteen years, I had the Bible, and God, and religion in general shoved down my throat. I really began to hate the whole religion idea, but the breaking point was when we had a visiting priest for mass one Sunday. I don't know what passage he was talking about, but he said, "We are God's choosen children. We were put here to save the world. We are the superior race." "We" as in Roman Catholics. I am not even kidding you. Not even close. I completely wanted to stand up and tell the entire church exactly what I thought of this faith. So, as a result, I have renounced the Roman Catholic faith, and pretty much organized religion on the whole. I do still believe that a god exsists. Something had to put us here, because I don't buy that we came from monkeys. Religion is just one more way to keep a population in submission. They take your freedom, they take your fucking money. That's the worst part, they want whatever the government hasn't already stolen. So, as long as I know that I believe in something, that's good enough for me.

 

[ledmag]

skreemqueen>>>Good deal. That preist is a fuckin joke.

yeah, read this whole thread. This is a very good one. No one here is pushing god on anyone, only discussing th ebook, and the fellow we call god.