So you think you've got an open mind?

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Norsemaiden

barbarian
Dec 12, 2005
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Having an open mind is a difficult challenge because it requires such flexibility. There is no point in attempting it unless you really want to discover truths. Even then you won't discover Truth, as one cohesive block. It is more like a puzzle of pieces you fit together.
By the time that we reach adulthood we have each formed a "world view". That means we have some kind of idea of what everything means to us, who we are and what we think. In this world view we have a sort of vital construct piece called a "key stone".
As with a building, if the key stone is knocked out of place the entire structure gets demolished and causes confusion while we try to make sense of things again.
Because people don't want the hassle of that happening, almost everyone resists even considering any ideas which could have such an effect.

Despite the necessity for a world view, there is still room for flexibility if you are the kind of person who hates having rigidity of belief.
Rigid belief is like being stuck in a box and not wanting to get out. A truly open mind feels like the open ocean - full of freedom, space and adventure.

An open mind will still have a world view based on what seems to be true in all probability. However, its flexibility means that it is ready to change in the face of convincing evidence.

Science is supposed to be open minded (the opposite of religion, which is closed minded, dogmatic belief). Scientists are human however, so (although a good scientist is open minded) they often get blinkered by ideas that they resist changing.
A fact, in science, is something that has a vanishingly small probability of being wrong. With theories there are also varying probabilities of accuracy.
(Sometimes in science something is only called a theory because of an inability to test it under laborotory conditions, even though evidence is overwhelmingly in its favour).

To the open mind, nothing is 100% certain. It is only as convincing as logic and evidence would lead a person to conclude. It is all about probability.

Because open minded people are less certain of things than closed minded people, it may seem that they could be easily manipulated and be gullible. Depending on someone's intelligence this is a danger. However, the closed minded person is at even more risk of being gullible because he has picked up a world view which was mostly handed complete to him. (A religion, for example,or a sheep-like acceptance of the prevalent view pushed by the media). The gullability of such people is shocking. It is like their world view was programmed into them by someone else. Yet this is the normal human condition.

Only a small fraction of a percent of people can be, or wish to be, open minded. They are not discouraged by not fitting in with society's norms. Open minded people are persecuted by the powers (governments, the Church, dictators, etc) who try to control the minds of the masses.

The main benefit to the individual of having an open mind is perhaps the possibility to see dangers and try to avoid or stop them. (A bit useless when everyone else around is singing "It's not happening, it's not happening!" and hating the person trying to wake them up.)
Then there's the benefit of not being decieved by mind trickery into unknowingly serving those who want to use and exploit you.
Then again, there is the drawback of being a heretic, and not being liked for it.
HO HUM!

F. Nietzche says:
Knowledge is always interpretation. "Great intellects are skeptics". Faith means not wanting to know what is true. Truth does not give enjoyment and comfortable feelings - more often it is the reverse.
Believing is decadent and a sign of a broken will to live. "Who alone has reason to lie himself out of actuality? He who suffers from it." "Truth has never yet clung to the arm of an inflexible man."
 
I've been told countless times that I'm close minded. Usually people who call me that are just passive.

I disagree to almost everything here. How the hell is science close minded? Wow, you bash religion like the defiant, open-minded person you are. The original intention of religion may have been benevolent with some integrity but it may become twisted because its followers taking it on a literal level than a metaphoric one. For example, Nietzche had respect for Christ himself but he argues his followers took him completely wrong and made it a religion based on pity. I dont feel that believing in a religion is always a bad thing. It's ethics, guidelines and belief in a divinity can be good. Everyone can talk shit about religion in North America because it's hold on society is weak.

Almost everybody becomes biased on life when they turn into adults. Like Adler or Jung saying introverts tend to look at life in good-bad, like-dislike and other inner emotions attached to that thing than the actual thing itself. Extroverts or the objective people look at the world in more of a physical sense than introverts but they have a problem of looking at things on how they can be used than just letting it exist.
 
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MURAI said:
I've been told countless times that I'm close minded. Usually people who call me that are just passive.

I disagree to almost everything here. How the hell is science close minded? Wow, you bash religion like the defiant, open-minded person you are. The original intention of religion may have been benevolent with some integrity but it may become twisted because its followers taking it on a literal level than a metaphoric one. For example, Nietzche had respect for Christ himself but he argues his followers took him completely wrong and made it a religion based on pity. I dont feel that believing in a religion is always a bad thing. It's ethics, guidelines and belief in a divinity can be good. Everyone can talk shit about religion in North America because it's hold on society is weak."
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Science is NOT closed minded. I was trying to say that science is the ultimate thing that can't be done properly without an OPEN mind. I have edited my post to make that clearer.
 
I'm pretty open minded .. I accept things before I doubt, while most people doubt before they accept.
 
MURAI said:
I've been told countless times that I'm close minded. Usually people who call me that are just passive.

I'm open-minded until I make up my mind. Then, I am closed-minded and consider it wise to be so unless presented with radically new information.
 
I think everyone is close minded about certain issues - its not neccassarily bad to be closed minded on certain things - partiacualy things you believe in; not just religion but anything that you are truely passionate about. I think everyone starts off life open minded, but as time goes on how much more sceptical do we become of people in general; but this also with good reason because often enough there have been events in your life that make you sceptical of people, i mean, if you let everyone that comes to your front doo rinto your house you'd probably wind uo dead - thats the sad state tht we live in this days. I mean, you cant even go to a bar and leave your drink alone to go and have a piss without someone spiking it; and i rekon that is waht creates scepticism and close mindiness
 
Yes Danallica, indeed it is my kind of open mind to be a skeptic, and question everything rather than accepting it without questioning it first. But a scientific mind has to be flexible enough to be changed in the face of good evidence that they were wrong.
No one should accept things without question, that is self-destructive because it means you will do unhealthy things with out asking yourself first if it is wise.
 
Danallica said:
I think everyone is close minded about certain issues - its not neccassarily bad to be closed because of events in your life that make you sceptical of people, i mean, if you let everyone that comes to your front doo rinto your house you'd probably wind uo dead - thats the sad state that we live in this days. I mean, you cant even go to a bar and leave your drink alone to go and have a piss without someone spiking it; and i rekon that is waht creates scepticism and close mindiness
this^^^ kinda reinforces the thing i said about people being evil
 
Norsemaiden said:
Yes Danallica, indeed it is my kind of open mind to be a sceptic, and question everything rather than accepting it without questioning it first. But a scientific mind has to be flexible enough to be changed in the face of good evidence that they were wrong.
No one should accept things without question, that is self-destructive because it means you will do unhealthy things with out asking yourself first if it is wise.

Yeh thats true - that sotra comes down to a trust thing as well, and the more your trust is broken the less trustworthy your gonna be
 
I should have mentioned earlier, great post Norsemaiden..

That said, for myself, I could remember in my teens having the "I want to know the truth whatever it is .. I can take it" approach to life. Well, perhaps then I wasn't completely honest with myself because I was maybe expecting there to be much more to the pie :) Going with the topic here, I think I am still very much open minded though this issue of Truth and the understanding that "Truth isn't always reassuring", has me sort of looking in the other direction.

"Ignorance is Bliss". I had despised this phrase and still do to a large degree ..as ignorance of others and of myself is responsible for the pain I have felt in my life and the pain others have felt ..and deep down equating this to "bliss" is wrong and ignorant as well ... at least from this angle.

From the other side, "the truth hurts" and sometimes it's just easier ..especially in the understanding that we sometimes can never know truth from false, to be optimistic and just assume the Truth to be something more reassuring and positive, when one is in doubt.

Though I am not religious, I can understand the religious personality and accept it as being a valid approach to life and living ..truth aside.

I still think I am open minded, and open minded enough to know that I don't always need to be so open minded, especialy when how I think of things directly effects my "worldview" and every aspect of my life on this planet. If this is true, and to some degree my thinking shapes my reality ..then I will be careful how I approach my world around me.
 
judas69 said:
"Ignorance is Bliss". I had despised this phrase and still do to a large degree ..as ignorance of others and of myself is responsible for the pain I have felt in my life and the pain others have felt ..and deep down equating this to "bliss" is wrong and ignorant as well ... at least from this angle.
From the other side, "the truth hurts" and sometimes it's just easier ..especially in the understand that we sometimes can never know truth from false, to be optimistic and just assume the Truth to be something more reassuring, when one is in doubt.
Though I am not religious, I can understanding the religious personality and accept it as being a valid approach to life and living ..truth aside.
first
"the reason ignorance is bliss is because enlightenment is pure hell" Darien Fawkes

second
on the religion thing there's basically 2 types of "Christians"
A)
pure brain washing they believe because they were exposed to christianity before (aprox) 3rd birthday when the mind becomes developed enough to realize the cultishness of the entire concept of religion
B)
"trigger event" (term that appears in psychology books) where an atheistic experiences a "trigger event" that is traumatic enough that he "becomes" religious as a coping mechanism to deal with something that would be difficult to try to deal with as an atheist
 
Quite right LRD! Judas69 I get what you're saying. I don't think it is so important for anyone to know the truth about themselves. Unless we think positively about ourselves we get depressed, so too much introspection is best avoided. It's another matter about trying to find out about more external truths and how that relates to the way we live.

It seems impossible to live and let live with people who have a religion that affects your own life. If relgious adherents get their own way and carry on unchallenged they would go back to the past problems of not allowing scientific observations of the universe, burning people as witches, forcing us to obey rituals, and fighting wars over disputes on how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
 
Norsemaiden said:
It seems impossible to live and let live with people who have a religion that affects your own life. If relgious adherents get their own way and carry on unchallenged they would go back to the past problems of not allowing scientific observations of the universe, burning people as witches, forcing us to obey rituals, and fighting wars over disputes on how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
from the point of view of a nihilist/chaos theorist the only solution to this problem would seem to be to eradicate the Christians the way that they burned witches at the stake, only the will science/medicine really have the ability to progress unhindered the concept of christianity preventing/hindering medical progress is shown in the episode of "Drawn Together" where the psychoticly Christian female character says "Don't worry Jesus, I'll put an end to this blasphemy before it saves the lives of countless millions" a phrase that as a non-christian i put in my sig because it is the exact opposite of my belief that religion should not override common sense
 
Norsemaiden said:
Because open minded people are less certain of things than closed minded people, it may seem that they could be easily manipulated and be gullible. Depending on someone's intelligence this is a danger. However, the closed minded person is at even more risk of being gullible because he has picked up a world view which was mostly handed complete to him. (A religion, for example,or a sheep-like acceptance of the prevalent view pushed by the media). The gullability of such people is shocking. It is like their world view was programmed into them by someone else. Yet this is the normal human condition.

.....I'll take this a step further. The open-minded individual probably has a superior education and greater career success in relation to those who have a closed mind. But more importantly, is able to distinguish reality as pseudo- fact as opposed to spin. Being open-minded means that you need to interact with others in order to get along. And those with an open-mind probably have a profession that is public-oriented in some respects. Agreed? Because successfully dealing with people in an effective manner is the only true way to success. And to be open-minded, you have to be a selfish individual. Not the opposite.

I know when I'm being hustled. I know when someone is playing me. I also know when someone is trying to use me to their own advantage. Your gut tells you and this is a highly developed sense in certain people.....almost primitive in nature. It can not be developed.....only heightened.

As an example, when someone is accused of wrongdoing, is is not prudent to question, probe, interrogate, and formulate before one goes off and comes to a conclusion? In a case like this, I would do the mature and intelligent thing by using my common sense and probing for facts.....not letting public perception sway my fact-finding mission. I would go directly to the source and get to the bottom of things.....by digging for facts and making my own observations. Not by doing the childish thing and letting the masses tell me what to do. Because the truly average individual never asks questions.....they assume without thinking.....because they cannot think for themselves. And then they are ruled.....at home, at school, or at work by their lack of development. Their mind (or lack thereof) is their prison. And that is essentially the way the great majority of people are.....eager sheep that go with the flow. And that is how witch hunts begin.

But not taking sides.....and taking "your" side as an individual.....that takes power of spirit, strength of character.....and awareness of self. Because most people with a low self esteem rarely do this. Instead, they let the perception and opinion of others speak for them. And that is weakness.....that is close-mindedness.

And indeed.....ignorance is not bliss in that respect. It is void of hope. Which is even worse.
 
The Winnipeg Warrior said:
.....I'll take this a step further. The open-minded individual probably has a superior education and greater career success in relation to those who have a closed mind. But more importantly, is able to distinguish reality as pseudo- fact as opposed to spin. Being open-minded means that you need to interact with others in order to get along. And those with an open-mind probably have a profession that is public-oriented in some respects. Agreed? Because successfully dealing with people in an effective manner is the only true way to success. And to be open-minded, you have to be a selfish individual. Not the opposite.

I know when I'm being hustled. I know when someone is playing me. I also know when someone is trying to use me to their own advantage. Your gut tells you and this is a highly developed sense in certain people.....almost primitive in nature. It can not be developed.....only heightened.

As an example, when someone is accused of wrongdoing, is is not prudent to question, probe, interrogate, and formulate before one goes off and comes to a conclusion? In a case like this, I would do the mature and intelligent thing by using my common sense and probing for facts.....not letting public perception sway my fact-finding mission. I would go directly to the source and get to the bottom of things.....by digging for facts and making my own observations. Not by doing the childish thing and letting the masses tell me what to do. Because the truly average individual never asks questions.....they assume without thinking.....because they cannot think for themselves. And then they are ruled.....at home, at school, or at work by their lack of development. Their mind (or lack thereof) is their prison. And that is essentially the way the great majority of people are.....eager sheep that go with the flow. And that is how witch hunts begin.

But not taking sides.....and taking "your" side as an individual.....that takes power of spirit, strength of character.....and awareness of self. Because most people with a low self esteem rarely do this. Instead, they let the perception and opinion of others speak for them. And that is weakness.....that is close-mindedness.

And indeed.....ignorance is not bliss in that respect. It is void of hope. Which is even worse.
wow i'm dazzled at how well articulated that was
 
I agree. I'm so Brilliant that even my Awesomness is in Awe of my Brilliance. It's a curse, you know! (LOL)

"Vhy is it that the truly brilliant are doomed to a life of obscurity, surrounded by a sea of mediocrity, only to end up covered in sores in a pool of their own filth? Oh vell, the beat goes on."

 
The Winnipeg Warrior said:
I agree. I'm so Brilliant that even my Awesomness is in Awe of my Brilliance. It's a curse, you know! (LOL)

"Vhy is it that the truly brilliant are doomed to a life of obscurity, surrounded by a sea of mediocrity, only to end up covered in sores in a pool of their own filth? Oh vell, the beat goes on."

:tickled:
 
Norsemaiden said:
Yes Danallica, indeed it is my kind of open mind to be a sceptic, and question everything rather than accepting it without questioning it first. But a scientific mind has to be flexible enough to be changed in the face of good evidence that they were wrong.
No one should accept things without question, that is self-destructive because it means you will do unhealthy things with out asking yourself first if it is wise.
Speaking scientifically, this is not the way science works. Perhaps thats the way it should work, but it really doesnt. I believe strongly in science, but Im willing to see the flaws inherent. Basically, the philosophy of science is based on paradigms. Whenever a prevailing paradigm is favored, all research is based upon it, and something counter to the paradigm will be met with firm resistance, even in the face of strong evidence. The new paradigm will often only overtake the old because of younger new scientists not brought up with the old paradigm, or because of some brilliant mechanism that wasnt available at the time.

Take for example...plate tectonics. In the late 19th century, the idea of moving continents was thoroughly ignored, because the prevailing paradigm was stationary continents, and that was the basis for the work being done. Even though moving continents had ample evidence, there was no mechanism, so the scientists HAD to refute it. It wasnt until someone (i forget who at the moment) came up with plate tectonics that continental drift became accepted and part of scientific theory.

Also, its deceiving the way science is presented...once a new theory usurps an old one, the old one vanishes from textbooks never to be heard of again. I doubt hardly any life science/chemistry majors in school right now know that not too long ago, scientists thought that the phlogiston was the thing that caused stuff to burn. Suggesting it was an element called oxygen in those days would have been laughed at.

My point is that while I do think science is getting more and more accurate with time, and I feel strongly about it, because thats what I want to do with my life...I admit the system isnt perfect, because when you have been taught under a paradigm, its hard to think outside that umbrella of theories.
 
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