So you want a tight mix?

[Wisheraser]

For sure, if by embarrassing you mean hilarious

 

[Ionei]

the closest i can get you, from my work, is plagues by prada. we recorded most of it live, and there was no click.

my mind = blown.

Although im listening to it now and i can hear the unstrugislike sloppiness in parts.

EDIT: also it seems as if MANY of you havent been reading joeys and jvals comments thoroughly, they do sections(be they extremely small sections), NOT NOTE FOR NOTE. also a sample library wouldnt work as each and every guitar player plays differently, the editted or punched in recordings atleast still sound like someone is actually playing it, samples will sound much too computerised.

 

[jval]

A properly intonated guitar shouldn't need specific tuning for each chord.

trust me, I WISH, but that is just simply not true.


and agreeing with the above poster, yeah, the idea that this is the same as sampling every note on the guitar and assembling it manually is just taking this to a ridiculous extreme.

last comment on this thread for me... if you don't like it, that's fine.. keep doing your thing and I'll keep doing mine. I didn't want this thread to be about the ethics of music production. I started it because I see all these posts about "why doesn't my POD guitar sound like joey" and so on, and I wanted to point out the fact that on those types of productions (read: majority of modern heavy rock / metal), most of that sound is being achieved through meticulous tracking and attention to detail. NOT from an amp sim, or a certain plug-in, etc. That is all secondary.

 

[abt]

Hey jval, I'm not interested in arguing the ethics of how people make their music, I'm just interested in learning new techniques, so thanks for this post.

Just say I want to replace just one note, do you alight the very first part of the note to the grid or the note transient that follows very shortly after that?

 

[joeymusicguy]

If anyone's interested I just tried doing 4 bars of the "track one note at a time" thing. I usually just slip edit after the fact when I'm editing guitars but the performance has gotta be pretty "on" to avoid really obvious artifacts.

Anyways, the before clip sounds pretty silly- basically just played a few notes at a time through Pod Farm at 140bpm. Chopped and quantized DI, then switched over to tick based tracks in PT and upped the tempo to 180.

Obviously I could play the riff without chopping but I just wanted to see how quickly this would go. Took about 5 minutes. Don't mind the guitar tone. I suspect Joey/Jordan would be more meticulous with the tuning too.

Before: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/818500/Guitars_Before.wav
After: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/818500/Guitars_After.wav
With Stuff: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/818500/SnapPOD.mp3

the second one sounds excellent

i couldnt even understand what was happening on the first one, it sounded like a dog farting on your fret board or something

 

[SocialNumb]

Did someone say vaginal belch?

 

[Melb_shredder]

I just read the last 9 pages... As a musician first and Bedroom AE a very far second... I can say im both sickened and intrigued by all of this...

In summing up my thoughts though...

If any of you editing types say even one word about anyone like brittany spears and the like, you can shove a pinnapple in your axe wounds!

It's no different! If it was, you wouldn't need to PERFECT good takes. Trust me I understand the point here, no open then closed note is perfect etc so you sub them in... I get that. But it's still ridiculous.... What a shit time to be a musician in! It's a fucking joke. And yet, people play into this horse shit...

I'm out

 

[rchoi54]

This is like reading a novel and looking up every single word in the dictionary.

You don't need to look up EVERY WORD, just a few.

as in you don't need to have a new track for EVERY NOTE, just split the tracks up by section (verse, chorus, breakdown)

This way, it's tight, but not as time consuming.

anyone who's willing to record 10,000 tracks for one song needs a life. honestly.

those are my thoughts
<333

 

[Melb_shredder]

This is like reading a novel and looking up every single word in the dictionary.

You don't need to look up EVERY WORD, just a few.

as in you don't need to have a new track for EVERY NOTE, just split the tracks up by section (verse, chorus, breakdown)

This way, it's tight, but not as time consuming.

anyone who's willing to record 10,000 tracks for one song needs a life. honestly.

those are my thoughts
<333

Derr derr derr, I haz a life... But unfortunately the industry expects it this way....

I think that's the issue, and it's sadly being agreed upon by doing it this way...

I look forward to the modern recording/ music industry faltering

Everything starts again at some point!

 

[SoClose]

this thread started out weak, people moaning and whining but then all the good info came out due to the bitching. lol so thanks!

2:05 a sharp slide lol.. just had to pick apart Vais playing to prove the point here that even with this (awesome swedish invention for intonation) and world renowned player, sour notes still happen.

yeah he could have played that whole thing over if he were in the studio. but to capture the essence he prolly just punch in that one note.

all in all this thread is great i love all the talk about how guitars really are out of whack even if they have great intonation. the good players learn their instrument and its flaw areas for their tunings. im a firm believer of that, but this new fretting is great! now i just gotta find a gibson with that feature!!!!

 

[plague_rider]

I'll admit in the past i've gone as far as:
-breaking up a song into sections/riffs
-breaking an integrated lead/rhythm riff into rhythm lead parts seperate to clean up the way it sounds
-Overdubbing slides/pinches (again to add clarity)

But I don't like the fact that recording has to be taken to that level for it to be accepted nowadays

 

[Jevil]

Punches, autotunes, beat detectives, xtreme editing...
With so many tricks every nerd in the planet can record an album!
Millions of bands releasing albums everyday and we blame piracy... haha.

The real Metal is on stage.

 

[abt]

With so many tricks every nerd in the planet can record an album!

Yeah but can they write a good song?

 

[Jevil]

Yeah but can they write a good song?

No, that's another fact. Most of the music today is pure bullshit.
There are millions of shitty bands releasing shitty albums and comtamining the industry with the smell of bullshit.

 

[abt]

No, that's it another fact. Most of the music today is pure bullshit.
There are millions of shitty bands releasing shitty albums and comtamining the industry with the smell of bullshit.

Plus one hundred billion to that! That's what the real problem is, in the past most bands couldn't record anything much better than demo quality without spending mega bucks that they didn't have unless they were signed. How did you get signed? Bums on seats. Put on a good live show. Now it's down to whether you can sell Pepsi or not. I'm far too old and too ugly to sell anything!:zombie:

 

[Josh Burgess]

Word!

Anyway, not a fan of the crazy editing. It's my opinion that people shouldnt be playing (or attempting in this case!) music where they need edits this bad. They should be practicing their ass off, like every other kid did back in the day, cos they are gonna be one hella big disapointment live. These tools should be used for emergency purposes only, just like auto tune and all the rest.

In the long run are the tools going erode music completely and render everybody lazy and shite? Or are they used by the best of the best to get their records just that little bit better?

P.S This has nothing against the original poster, if you do it for a living you're gonna hit this all the time at the moment I'm sure. I just like listening to well produced music from bands who can play, not crab core tuned to perfection

+1 There are still plenty of amazing musicians out there who can nail their parts and rely on their music to speak for itself. It just so happens that they also would like to have nice production quality for their music. (Awesome guitar tones, powerful and clear drums, actually.... powerful and clear mix in general)

Then there are tons of shitty teenage metalcore bands who can barely play and rely on producers to make their less than great music rely on hard hitting production to give them something in order to get people to pay attention to them. So, instead of having some great riffs and compositions, they have mediocre riffs and compositions that are unnaturally forced into sounding really clear and hard-hitting, because nobody would care about the music otherwise.

The production should serve the music. It should help the music be presented in its best form. The production should not be the main attraction. That's the problem with these bands. The production is the main attraction and the music is secondary, or even disposable. I want to hear interesting, well thought out music with production that allows me hear the music the way I think it sounds best. I don't want to hear boring, disposable music that serves as a medium to display great production.

EDIT: But then again, these are just my thoughts and I think of music as an art form, not as a disposable, fashionable form of mindless entertainment.

 

[AEL89]

^ nicely said Mr. Logan - perfect blend of hippie and audio engineer. I share a similar stance to you, possibly a tad more hippie though

 

[Jind]

To be completely honest, this is part of the reason I haven't been getting the WOW-feeling in quite a long time. It's more like "Oh, it's the same old, perfecty polished, utterly boring band again.

I have to admit, this is how I've been feeling lately. I went through a phase where I was really digging some of the artists mentioned in this thread, but lately the shine has wore off. I find myself venturing into my older discs much more often to find the WOW when I listen to music. Even my guitar playing is changing. I think my ears are tired, fatigued, and just plain bored by much of what is now considered metal today. It's a good thing I'm a musician and not a producer/AE, or whatever you want to call it today because I'd hate to hear it day in and day out.

 

[BuriedInSmoke]

is this some kind of a sick joke or what?
stop killing music
stop listening to bands like arch enemy
stop with that soulless trend, i mean what the hell's goin on?
recording a riff by notes? whats the point? there's no energy what so ever in this. whats the point?
listen to led zeppelin for crying out loud.

 

[chdrummer]

seriously who gives a flying fuck? let people do whatever the fuck they want to do. if they want a good sounding product, and cut up every riff note by note, thats their own fuckin choice. if you dont agree with it, THEN DONT FUCKIN DO IT. and when the stuff they put out sounds better than yours, dont get pissed. most people that listen to music aren't engineers and could give a fuck less about how it was recorded. all the care about is the final product. the arguments on this forum blow my mind sometimes. i come on here to learn and get advice, get opinions of equipment, and people are always just bitching.

whew, k im done :]