Socialism, Scandinavia, and Music

[speed]

This idea had been brweing in my head for a few days after listening to the new Opeth, the idea is whether the socialist governments of Scandinavia directly influences the types and quality of music being produced by Scandinavia?

I 've read taxes are essentially 60%, an absurd figure for a greedy American such as myself. Could this absurdly high tax rate, produce bands that are creating music for the mere love of music, instead of the trappings of fame, money, women etc, that most American bands search for? As just what would be the point of all this fame and notoriety when 60% of all ones earnings go to the government? Does such a high tax rate and such a unified homogenous culture, cast a dissapproving glance upon money and fame? Or am I totally off base,as Sweden did produce ABBA?

 

[Staffan]

Just to let you know: we pay a third of our income in taxes(if you earn over 50000kr which is about 5300$ or something you pay 50%)

Anyway... Sweden is big in creating any kind of music, good or bad... But the amount of bad bands are pretty much lower than in US... And metal is a bit of atrend here! atleast where I live the schools wants the kids to play music in bands, arranging concerts often, having a bunch of full equiped rehearsing rooms and so on. I think that's a way many find out about metal and starts a band!

 

[Tranquillian]

Originally posted by Staffan
Just to let you know: we pay a third of our income in taxes(if you earn over 50000kr which is about 5300$ or something you pay 50%)

Anyway... Sweden is big in creating any kind of music, good or bad... But the amount of bad bands are pretty much lower than in US... And metal is a bit of atrend here! atleast where I live the schools wants the kids to play music in bands, arranging concerts often, having a bunch of full equiped rehearsing rooms and so on. I think that's a way many find out about metal and starts a band!

Really?
I thought you paid around 30 % for the amount up to $20000 and then 55% for the amounts you earn above that sum.

I don't think that politics have got anything to do with the quality of the music being made here. I'd say that we can blame Europe, Yngwie Malmsteen, Entombed, HammerFall, At The Gates and Dissection (just to name a few examples) for inspiring kids to start their own bands. Since the late 80's Sweden has had a strong metal scene and it's not because of the country being run by socialists.

 

[demon talented]

Originally posted by At The Gates
Since the late 80's Sweden has had a strong metal scene and it's not because of the country being run by socialists.

I agree. However, in Sweden, they (the culture as a whole) will probably be more supportive of artists and care more about the actual art more. I don't think it would directly influence any certain band or anything, but I think people would have more incentive to going into art than in places such as America. We use money as a determinant for the value of things, and priceless art generally means very little.

 

[Lina]

Originally posted by speed
This idea had been brweing in my head for a few days after listening to the new Opeth, the idea is whether the socialist governments of Scandinavia directly influences the types and quality of music being produced by Scandinavia?

I 've read taxes are essentially 60%, an absurd figure for a greedy American such as myself. Could this absurdly high tax rate, produce bands that are creating music for the mere love of music, instead of the trappings of fame, money, women etc, that most American bands search for? As just what would be the point of all this fame and notoriety when 60% of all ones earnings go to the government? Does such a high tax rate and such a unified homogenous culture, cast a dissapproving glance upon money and fame? Or am I totally off base,as Sweden did produce ABBA?

You're right, you do think like a greedy American.

Scandinavians on this board have mused about this before, and the consensus is that the large amount of great music probably has something to do with the fact that those high taxes partly go toward free music lessons.

 

[Orchid]

Hmm, I don't think it's that, Lina. We don't have any free music lessons in Finland... but then again, we don't have too many good bands either. Aah, I still haven't woken up properly.

Anyway, I think the overall culture, attitude and surroundings are the things that affect it the most. I think American labels have that certain "these guys have one good hit. Let's sign them for one album and milk billions out of that song by selling millions of albums by the power of advertising" -attitude. They are forging bands that don't care about the music, only money matters ('kin reps! )

Also, comparing Europe and North America (I'm talking about USA, namely) musically isn't fair. We over here (esp. Scandinavia) have thousands of years of history of music. God knows how long since people in Finland started playing the kantele (and in Sweden, too, probably, although I think they have their own 'national instrument'). USA has been around, what, half a millennium? (I really can't remember right now)

 

[Lethal01]

more like its way too cold to get out in the winters, so I just sit inside playing music with a few friends instead

 

[Staffan]

Music is more of a culture here I think

 

[Lina]

Originally posted by Orchid
Hmm, I don't think it's that, Lina. We don't have any free music lessons in Finland... but then again, we don't have too many good bands either. Aah, I still haven't woken up properly.

I'm pretty sure at least Norway and Sweden have government-funded music lessons and a large percentage of kids take advantage of them, based on what I've read on this board before. But of course I'm sure there is a large number of factors that contribute to so many bands coming out of such a geographically small region. Perhaps, though, the "quality" of writing is improved by kids being exposed to theory and composition early on.

 

[Staffan]

Originally posted by Lina
I'm pretty sure at least Norway and Sweden have government-funded music lessons and a large percentage of kids take advantage of them, based on what I've read on this board before. But of course I'm sure there is a large number of factors that contribute to so many bands coming out of such a geographically small region. Perhaps, though, the "quality" of writing is improved by kids being exposed to theory and composition early on.

that's true(atleast IMO)

 

[speed]

55% over $30,000 American in taxes would amount to another Revolution over here, I am not kidding. Yet, the standard of living is far better in Scandinavia.

I think Lina has a good point on the lessons etc that are free.

Yet, i did travel to Scandinavia (for pleasure and travel only, not some music tour) Sweden, Norway, and Denmark- and i noticed in Sweden and Norway, that records stores had a huge selection of obscure progressive rock, jazz, and classical etc. And one would be hard pressed to find but one store in a large city in the United States. I dont know how many concerts of these rather non- commercial music forms are put on, but in the US- if it isnt commercial pop played at clubs, it is blues, or maybe a jazz band.

Thus, my point is that money and fame seem secondary to quality in Scandinavian society, and i just thought socialism and the homogenous society may have something to do with it.

 

[MacMoney]

The bigger amount of bands out of Scandinavia is because if you're a Scandinavian and have a band that plays stuff that is popular nowadays in the metal scene you're more than likely to be picked up by a label to make a release. Labels are quite abundant here in Scandinavia since metal here sells more than in the USA. Without label support, a band doesn't get much promotion i.e. you people don't hear about it. Just because you don't hear the bands doesn't mean that they're not there.

 

[Punisher]

Originally posted by Lina
I'm pretty sure at least Norway and Sweden have government-funded music lessons...

yea i wish.....

 

[Sfarog]

I also heard a few things about sweden, namely that its a huuuge music exporting country, and that its easier for a band or artists in general to get some kind of financial support from the government.

The school music education must be there as well, cause we had plenty of it in Poland, while here, in America, its a joke. America sux when it comes to artistic creation. Thats why I'm getting outa here as soon as I finish college

 

[Koujo]

Originally posted by Sfarog
The school music education must be there as well, cause we had plenty of it in Poland, while here, in America, its a joke. America sux when it comes to artistic creation. Thats why I'm getting outa here as soon as I finish college

Amen...

 

[Staffan]

We do get free lessons!!

 

[Mammon]

First of all... Scandinavia aren't socialists...we're social-democrats, which is a big difference. We pay high taxes on income and such, and the 'value added taxes' are 24%, so all commodities are expensive. Due to all the income the state has, they fund our schools, dentists (up to 20 years) even large companies (in order to help the people working there). And yes, they fund music lessons, at least for kids (at least where I live).

The best-selling-artists do not sell much at all. I think 50k records sold are considered an awesome achievement. Therefore, domestic musicians don't get rich on their music. They can make a living, but that's it.

I love living in Norway, even though beer cost $12 a sixpack (in stores; pubs and restaurants takes 3 times as much), and a litre of whiskey cost $40 (again, 3 times as much in pubs and restaurants). 80% of that goes directly to the government

 

[Staffan]

That's Norway! We are socialists

 

[Elysian Blaze]

$12 for a six pack? Holy Christ.

Maybe Scandinavian folk have an innate sense of pride, seeing how their cultures are quite old. In America, I think people [most people] are born with an innate sense of greed. Well, maybe greed is the wrong word. Americans seem more wore willing to whore themselves out to make money than other societies. Granted, every where you look, there will be people like that, but America really has no other history. We're a nation of "progression", so there will obviously be those who are willing to do more for that extra dollar.

[shrugs] Just my thoughts.

 

[Mammon]

Staffan: I thought the Norwegian welfare-system was 'heavier' than the Swedish? And Persson is a social-democrat, not a socialist.