Why does Europe have more hard rock and metal bands than the USA?

[jaimek]

A possible factor: it's not so much that there are more or less bands in Europe or the US, but it's probably a hell of a lot cheaper to get around in Europe - at least for the fans; I don't know about the bands. You have a ton of established, well-known venues all over western Europe, even just within the countries which are on par with US states in size. Having recently been to the Netherlands, I'll use that as an example: there are at least three places in Amsterdam alone, Boerderij is about 30-40m south, that place in Belgium another hour away or so, PPEu is about three hours away by the German border, and I know there's several other venues/festivals scattered around a country that's about twice the size of New Jersey. There's ALWAYS shows happening every few weeks or months, and it's relatively easy to get to most of the venues by car or by public transportation (there was a train stop right next to Boerderij, where we saw Damian Wilson + Friends.) Even Germany has a shitload of shows within a couple of hours of each other, and it's a considerably larger country at nearly the size of Montana.

Contrast that to the East Coast, where most of the shows seem to hit. You have Jaxx in VA, the Troc over two hours north and then a couple of NJ and NYC venues 4-6 hours from there (Jaxx), a couple places in MA and CT... if you go south from Jaxx there isn't anything until you get to Raleigh, Charlotte, and Atlanta (except maybe Norfolk/VA Beach, but it's out of the way.) There's a House of Blues in Myrtle Beach, but it's also out of the way. You have to travel a good 1000-1500 miles to get the same number of possibilities as you have in one small country, and if you don't have a car (or a friend with one), you can't get to many of those venues.

So while I wouldn't say Europe has more bands, it's a MUCH friendlier touring environment.

 

[Cheiron]

And for the record, my argument was that the metal market is better in Europe than the US partly due to Europe's (particularly Scandanavian) socio-political climate. I have a feeling that the U.S. punk scene is a better market in the U.S. compared to Europe. Middle class white kids upset at having everything making angry anti-establishment music.

 

[johan68]

I thought I'd start this tread before the TSO tread got too far off topic.

There sure seem like a plethora of such bands throughout Europe. Especially Scandinavia. Is it because they are more socialist as Cherion would state. People looking for independence from the repressive government. Which I find hard to believe. Or is there more freedom from the daily needs that allow for more creativity. Maybe something else that has created a more diverse musical market. Less public sheep that only consume the music that is advertised and they are told to buy?

I know most of the European bands can't make a living only doing music anymore than American bands. So why more albums and labels? Obviously they have a bigger audience. But why?

Now that's just hilarious.... The statement about the socialism that is.... If Cherion really stated that... Hard to believe someone on this board would be so fucking stupid.... People looking for independence from a repressive government...

Seriously! I really don't think there is more or better hard rock and metal in Europe. Just that they get a lot more recognition due to the fact that heavy music is so much more popular and recognized over there. There is just as much great metal in the U.S, but only a few ever get a chance to show their stuff.

 

[Cheiron]

Yeah. Nobody has ever escaped to artistic expression in reaction to their political climate. Nobody. Never. And no fandom has ever centered around a music genre due to its politics.

And um, nobody said the metal is better overseas. The original comment was that the market for metal overseas is better.

 

[johan68]

Yeah. Nobody has ever escaped to artistic expression in reaction to their political climate. Nobody. Never. And no fandom has ever centered around a music genre due to its politics.

And um, nobody said the metal is better overseas. The original comment was that the market for metal overseas is better.

That's exactly what is so funny... That someone actually think the Scandinavian political climate is more repressive than the American...

And by the way. Everyone in Sweden, Norway and Denmark considers Finland and Iceland to be part of Scandinavia (I think). No one has ever given The Färö islands a thought before Tyr appeared.

 

[dcowboys311]

That's exactly what is so funny... That someone actually think the Scandinavian political climate is more repressive than the American...

LOL.

Now how exactly did you get that out of his posts?
In fact, he even brought up sort of the American equivalent with punk rock.

 

[Cheiron]

This issue is discussed in Metal: A Headbanger's Journey as well. It is where I first heard it, and it was convincing to me.

 

[modernwizardry]

ALL music is "manufactured to sell". Anyone who tells you they don't want to sell records and then offers records for sale is lying to you. Anyone who offers a download and a buy option wants to sell you something too. If somebody didn't want to sell it to you, they wouldn't.

no!

 

[lady_space]

LOL.

Now how exactly did you get that out of his posts?
In fact, he even brought up sort of the American equivalent with punk rock.

This statement sounds to me like that is what he is saying:
"Especially Scandinavia. Is it because they are more socialist as Cherion would state. People looking for independence from the repressive government."


I'm guessing johan68 read it the same way I did?

I have to agree with him: to imply that the government of Sweden, at least, is repressive is amusing to me. Yes, I would consider them more on the socialist side of things, but socialism =/= Fascism. Not sure where socialism = repressive comes from, but maye I'm reading that statement incorrectly.

 

[nomisofsiman]

hahahahaha! My sentiments exactly. First off, I think people are getting a little too testy about this topic. It's one thing arguing points, it's another thing when you guys are name calling and using an over indulgence in swears. I'm not a prude btw, I just think we need to focus on discussions and arguments at hand without getting so sensitive.

On to the main point. I disagree that there are MORE bands (proportionally, as someone said Europe is bigger than here) over in Europe, even when it comes to metal. I think it just seems that way in certain genres. Let's face it in the US, you have an overabundance of extreme bands, i.e. metalcore, death metal and thrash (which is and isn't extreme). So if you're talking classic or prog or power, yeah there are more over there. Also, it seems that there are more because quite frankly, labels and such are more willing to give metal bands a chance overseas. I love this country but let's be honest, the US is VERY commercialized and mainstream, and quite simply don't give the US public benefit of the doubt that they'll like something. They go with the sure thing.

I mean really, how many metal bands are on big-time labels? Metallica, Slayer, Lamb of God and uhhhh... maybe Priest and Maiden? Some will argue that Roadrunner is major, but it's still more of a glorified indie metal label and the discs they put out aren't really marketed to anyone outside of the metal community except for Nickelback of course which isn't metal.

My point? It's a completely different culture. We're very commercialized in general and metal just isn't pushed. Labels and music companies in general like to make the quick buck and not take any risks, which is why you have pop and rap as the major moneymakers, with a couple rock acts for good measure as the popular artists in the US. I for one still don't get how Metallica is so damn popular apposed to everyone, when outside of their 90s output, aren't particularly mainstream, apposed to a lot of other thrash. But anyways, before I get sidetracked, in Europe things are more free. For the most part, the countries aren't as sensitive with things, when it comes to the arts in general. Not to mention in Europe you have a HUGE amount of diverse cultures which is why you get more eclectic bands as well as music companies. I think this might also be part of why some may think there's more in Europe because there definitely is more eclectic music in Europe apposed to here. Even the bands that are different here, end up being more popular overseas, i.e. Kamelot and Symphony X.

So no, I don't think it's so much there's more bands over in Europe as it's just a vastly different group of cultures and a different way of dealing with the arts in general.

 

[edgeofthorns]

Keep going, you're only asking to be added to my ignore list!

Hello...excuse me...sorry for the interruption, but will you add my name to that list please? Thank you! Proceed.....

~Brian~

 

[jaimek]

 

[edgeofthorns]

...nice!

~Brian~

 

[J-Man]

You know I have been following this thread, and there are a lot of things I want to say, but won't. I think the person that should answer a lot of these questions, and opinions are three people that were and still are involved in the European Music scene, Claus Jensen, Urban Breed and Lance King, I think they could provide the best insight into what goes on. Just my opinion.

 

[Claus / Intromental]

Ahhhh ... what an interesting and obscure thread this is ... full of good comments, but also full of so much bullshit that it's hard to walk through it all.

First, a couple of "setting things straight" comments:

1) No, Finland is not one of the Scandinavian countries. There's a big misunderstanding there, as Finland is part of the Nordic Union (Norway, Sweden, Denmark/Greenland/Faroe Islands, Finland and Iceland), whereas Scandinavia only covers Sweden, Norway and Denmark.

2) As an ex-Dane, I take offense in Denmark being called a socialist country. Really???? We haven't had anything you could remotely call a socialist government for the past 12 years in Denmark, and before that we had a government led by "Social Demokratiet" which isn't far from the "Democrats" over here. In Sweden they have a pretty "liberal" party in charge, so calling them socialist is also pretty rough.

3) I've seen several here say that the governments in Europe support bands with money for tours, equipment and recordings. Ehhmmm ... no! Yes, you can in certain countries APPLY for those kind of grants from the government, and that is awesome, however, chances of getting them are slim. You need to know the right person or get your application in the hands of exactly the guy who understands what you want. Over the past 13 years I've worked with 40+ European bands and done tons of tours/recordings/etc and I can only remember 2 situations where bands actually did get those grants. Chances are for any band better to ask a big company to be their sponsor and get money that way.

Okay time to answer the original question:
Q: "Why does Europe have more hard rock and metal bands than the USA?"
A: Europe does NOT have more hard rock / metal bands in Europe than USA.

What would I base that on?
- well, I receive a ton of mails every single day from bands that wants to work with Intromental, and most of those comes from ... you guessed it ... USA! Does that mean that I sign more US based bands than Euro bands? No! I probably sign more European bands, and why I do that is a completely different discussion altogether.

As far as touring opportunities go - well, it makes sense that a lot of European bands gets to tour whereas US bands don't really do that. The distances from one large city to another in Europe are smaller than over here in the US. It'll be more expensive setting up a US tour than a European one.

As far as labels go - yes, there seem to some of those on this board to be a larger concentration of labels in the metal scene in Europe than in the US, but again, that's because you look at it from the power/prog side of things. If you want to play death metal / metal core / hard core etc, you should probably sign with a US label (and there are tons of labels for those genres over here). So why is that skewed between US and Europe? Well, the fact is that your potential market in the US consists of the young kids who like something hard/evil and "rebellious" (to use a word from earlier in this thread) - so of course the labels here aim for that audience and sign bands in the genres that will appeal to the young kids. In Europe however you don't really have that abundancy of youngsters into metal (sad but true) and the old farts rather want another style of music. I know I'm cutting it straight to the bone here and the comments above are very general (and there are a ton of exceptions to the rules), but that's basically it.

So, in short - the question about why there are more hard rock/metal bands in Europe can be answered with a "ehmmm ... there aren't, but thanks for opening up a long discussion about it"

c.

 

[Cheiron]

Denmark is a politically interesting country. It has a lot of socialized programs (read socialist), yet espouses free markets. Denmark's primary threat to its socialistic practices though is immigration (which is an influx of people who haven't participated in funding the programs for very long, or very well, yet take advantage of the program). And most see major changes happening to the country in a few years.

 

[Claus / Intromental]

Denmark is a politically interesting country. It has a lot of socialized programs (read socialist), yet espouses free markets. Denmark's primary threat to its socialistic practices though is immigration (which is an influx of people who haven't participated in funding the programs for very long, or very well, yet take advantage of the program). And most see major changes happening to the country in a few years.

This belongs to the lounge - I'll reply there.
c.

 

[Metal_Camden]

HAHAHA win!

 

[ratanda]

This thread is going places.

 

[ratanda]

HAHA!! I almost just sprayed Coke all over the monitor. Well done sir, well done.