speaking of americans....

[Lillitu]

This looks just about like strategy for convincing america to go to war. We are in such good company.

"Of course the people don't want war... That is understood. But afterall, it is the leaders of thecountry who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter todrag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascistdictatorship,or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, thepeople can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That iseasy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, anddenounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the countryto danger. It works the same in any country."

-- Hermann Goering, Adolf Hitler's Deputy Chief and LuftwaffeCommander,at the Nuremberg trials, 1946 from "Nuremberg Diary" by G M Gilbert

 

[Captain Beard]

Yep. Heil Bushler.

 

[495]

 

[PlatypusJesus]

 

[Tricus]

I don't want to go to war and it is a shame that Bush has decided to cause seperation between us and our long time allies when we should be working to form stronger alliances. On the other hand however, Saddam just isn't going to budge if he knows that he can hide safely behind the UNs lack of resolution solvement and the harsh scare tactics used by the Bush administration are almost necessary to get Iraq to comply. Another problem

I see is that the general American is not informed to the severity of the reasoning behind the disarment and government change proposed in Iraq. America waited too long to join WW2 and over 6 million Jews died in the holocaust.

Now, the French despite the horrorendous acts commited by Saddam are saying that they will refuse to vote for war under any circumstances. The French are not only neglecting the fact that we've bailed them out under many of instances but are also turning their backs on those oppressed and threatened by Saddam. I've heard that the French didn't like Americans but every one I've met in my life has seemed pretty cool.

Anyway, as always in America, Middle Eastern opinions vary greatly (sadly alot are uneducated on the true issues). The opinion poles aren't very accurate so who's to really say. I personally don't agree with any of it, based on the fact that America has intervened with the Middle Eastern politics in the past with extreme prejudice, besides every time some researchers put together a new electric car, the oil industry buys the rights and if anything will just showcase them in a musuem to appease the inventor's egos. Besides, Iran is nuclear now and they hate us just as much as Iraq and not to mention North Korea is dying to show off its nuclear capabilities.

 

[Lies and Perfidy]

I've spent a lot of time debating this on the Testament board...I gave up after I realized Hannibal666Lecter was totally brainwashed and had nothing beter to say then "I'm older than you, snotnose." But I'm just gonna say that this war is a horrible idea - deposing Saddam is good, but that's not why or how we're going to war. And John Ashcroft is an evil, evil fucker.

 

[Ihreil Junkenstein]

Anyone who wants war is fucked up. Anyone who thinks it will be quick and successful needs to be LOCKED up.

 

[TheDreamingMind]

I guess I'm fucked up then. But then maybe there will be nuclear winter soon and no one will care

 

[lizard]

I don't want the war, but it will be quick. check out the vids on this page: http://www.vampirebat.com/obeythefist/index.html
they just can't compete technologically. in the AC-130, check out the gunship hunting down those little blips that are living breathing humans...but not for long.

 

[Ihreil Junkenstein]

It's not about technology. It's about who wants to win more. And when you have nothing to lose you have a BIG incentive to beat the shit out of america. was it 12 sucidal guys who stopped you for the best part of 2 weeks on 9/11? Now imagine them being fully orginised taking over 10 planes not 3. There are a lot of sympathisers and when america acts like they do now it won't be hard to find more.
If war starts now it will last for years not weeks or months, because they think they are right and a "God" is with them.

 

[Guerrilla]

I don't want to go to war and it is a shame that Bush has decided to cause seperation between us and our long time allies when we should be working to form stronger alliances. On the other hand however, Saddam just isn't going to budge if he knows that he can hide safely behind the UNs lack of resolution solvement and the harsh scare tactics used by the Bush administration are almost necessary to get Iraq to comply. Another problem

I see is that the general American is not informed to the severity of the reasoning behind the disarment and government change proposed in Iraq. America waited too long to join WW2 and over 6 million Jews died in the holocaust.

Now, the French despite the horrorendous acts commited by Saddam are saying that they will refuse to vote for war under any circumstances. The French are not only neglecting the fact that we've bailed them out under many of instances but are also turning their backs on those oppressed and threatened by Saddam. I've heard that the French didn't like Americans but every one I've met in my life has seemed pretty cool.

Anyway, as always in America, Middle Eastern opinions vary greatly (sadly alot are uneducated on the true issues). The opinion poles aren't very accurate so who's to really say. I personally don't agree with any of it, based on the fact that America has intervened with the Middle Eastern politics in the past with extreme prejudice, besides every time some researchers put together a new electric car, the oil industry buys the rights and if anything will just showcase them in a musuem to appease the inventor's egos. Besides, Iran is nuclear now and they hate us just as much as Iraq and not to mention North Korea is dying to show off its nuclear capabilities.

Yeah, yeah that sounds very noble, except Bush isn't after Saddam, he's after the goddamn oil. Saddam is just a lame excuse.
By saying stuff like "I see is that the general American is not informed to the severity of the reasoning behind the disarment and government change proposed in Iraq.", you only make yourself sound like a total idiot. You're just as ignorant and misinformed as everyone else out there.

 

[Ihreil Junkenstein]

Is it me or have they been saying they "will find definitive proof" of Saddams weapon stash "Within two weeks" for the past 3 months? Perhaps....IT DOESN'T EXIST!

 

[MetalGod71]

John Ashcroft is an evil fucker?!?!?! Are you kidding me? Saddam has children raped in front of their parents. He has a newswoman who made a joke about his wife get tortured for three hours and killed, after he first cut out her tongue. If any Iraqi citizen criticizes Saddam, they are tortured and killed. Oh yeah...Bush and Ashcraft are the problem here. GIMME A FUCKING BREAK YOU COMMUNIST FUCKS WITH YOUR HEADS UP YOUR ASSES. You Americans who come on here and preach the "Anti-America" crap should be thankfull that others have died to protect your freedom to do that. You couldn't get away with that in places like Iraq, you ungrateful little shits.

Timothy McVeigh had Iraqi telephone numbers in his pocket when he was arrested after the Oklahoma City Bombing. I guess that's pretty common for all ex-marines from Buffalo, huh?

France is against the US simply because they are afraid that we will find out that they helped Saddam with nuclear secrets in exchange for oil deals. So...YES, THIS IS ALL ABOUT OIL, BUT NOT BECAUSE BUSH WANTS TO TAKE IT. If we wanted to take over the oil we could have done it easily in 1991 when we were there.

I certainly don't think Bush is the greatest thing in the world, but to compare him to people like Hitler shows ignorance to such a great degree that it's hard to even communicate with you. I'm generally pretty "anti-government" period, but I'd much rather have Bush in charge of my country than a madman like Saddam. It's a shame that such a cool band like Nevermore has such a bunch of uneducated, socialist fucks as fans.

 

[Lillitu]

John Ashcroft is an evil fucker?!?!?! Are you kidding me? Saddam has children raped in front of their parents. He has a newswoman who made a joke about his wife get tortured for three hours and killed, after he first cut out her tongue. If any Iraqi citizen criticizes Saddam, they are tortured and killed. Oh yeah...Bush and Ashcraft are the problem here. GIMME A FUCKING BREAK YOU COMMUNIST FUCKS WITH YOUR HEADS UP YOUR ASSES. You Americans who come on here and preach the "Anti-America" crap should be thankfull that others have died to protect your freedom to do that. You couldn't get away with that in places like Iraq, you ungrateful little shits.

And this kind of thing happened(s) in Central and South America all the time as well, but we support those governments. This is just as much a propaganda statement for war as my quote was a propaganda statement for no war(or at least a more careful and thought out progression towards war). Ashcroft/Bush do not out right torture people, but you can be put in jail indefinitely without due process for appearing unpatriotic.

France is against the US simply because they are afraid that we will find out that they helped Saddam with nuclear secrets in exchange for oil deals. So...YES, THIS IS ALL ABOUT OIL, BUT NOT BECAUSE BUSH WANTS TO TAKE IT. If we wanted to take over the oil we could have done it easily in 1991 when we were there.

We attacked in 1991 for oil yes, but there was also that other pesky factor that Saddam invaded and tried to annex a sovereign nation, Kuwait. THAT was our overt political basis for attacking. If you will remember, or at least do a casual google search, Saudi Arabia requested US troops to help protect themselves against a possible Iraqui attack. We had the full support of the other Middle Eastern nations as well as the UN. We bombed Iraqi, but did not actually follow them onto their soil. Had we mopped the Iraquis out of Kuwait and then continued on into Iraq, flattened their poplulation and set up our own puppet govenment, I think the rest of the Middle Eastern countries and would have turned on us.

I certainly don't think Bush is the greatest thing in the world, but to compare him to people like Hitler shows ignorance to such a great degree that it's hard to even communicate with you. I'm generally pretty "anti-government" period, but I'd much rather have Bush in charge of my country than a madman like Saddam. It's a shame that such a cool band like Nevermore has such a bunch of uneducated, socialist fucks as fans.

Low blow, but at least Hitler won his popular vote. And no, it is not ignorace. Major atrocites are usually preceeded by little baby steps that appear correct or at least more innocuous than they are. Yes, I'd rather have Bush over Saddam (duh), but it is a fine line between world power and world bully and I think we are definitley stepping over the line.

 

[MetalGod71]

Low blow, but at least Hitler won his popular vote. And no, it is not ignorace. Major atrocites are usually preceeded by little baby steps that appear correct or at least more innocuous than they are. Yes, I'd rather have Bush over Saddam (duh), but it is a fine line between world power and world bully and I think we are definitley stepping over the line.

What does the popular vote have to do with ANYTHING? That's not how we elect people in America. If it was, election strategy would be totally different. That's like saying the winner of a football game should be the team with the most first downs, instead of points. That's not how the game is played, and that point is irrelevent, but commonly used to attack Bush whenever somebody like you is losing the intellectual battle. Might I add that Bush not only won the first, second and third counting of the Florida votes, but every recount since. Get over it.

So let's see here...
Saddam goes into Kuwait to take over and has been the cause of the whole mess for 12 years. He has violated 18 UN resolutions to disarm, and yet it is America who is the world bully. If that is truly what you believe then you are beyond help. I give up.

 

[Ihreil Junkenstein]

Goddamn insane can only bomb countrys near him. America can fuck over the world.

HOW ELECTIONS WORK-
1)politicans campaign and make themselves popular.
2)a vote is taken to see who people like best.
3) the most POPULAR person wins. Just like in high school. Not on merit of inteligence or having a good idea, on how much cash you threw at the public to appear good clean all american guy. This applies worldwide. To say elections aren't popularity contests is bullshit.

There are literaly dozens of regimes more harsh than saddam's. You hear about his now becaue you want to go after him now. He is in effect, a soft target. A public face of a bad guy.

he has something you want. Oil and noterity. Capture him and you might forget your government has done sod all for you since he got into office.
Think you fuck, don't just accept propaganda all the time.

 

[kiyardo]

Actually, it is France who is after oil. Them and Germany and Russia. All of those countries have contracts to get oil if UN sanctions are lifted. France also supplies the Iraqi military with equipment, parts, and missiles.

Saddam Hussein must be removed, and if any of you anti-war supporters can't see that he is a threat, and a brutal tyrant who murders his own people, then you need to open your eyes to the truth.

BTW, Bush was elected by the Electoral College. He won fair and square, even after multiple recounts, as was mentioned earlier. Those who bring up the 2000 election and say Bush isn't legitimate are grasping for straws and just puking left-wing propaganda.

 

[MetalGod71]

FINALLY! Somebody with a brain.

 

[Ihreil Junkenstein]

Of course! it's those communist counrtys! Damn reds! and I bet the japs are in on it too....

I'm not saying goddamn insane is a good guy. But there are MUCH worse out there.

And im sorry, I just like elections to be FAIR. And if he won fairly why was there an outcry? perhaps his crooked brother *might* have fixed it bit.Just a bit.
And half of your population didn't vote so actualy no-one won. and about half voted for the other guy.
so in theory 3/4 of your counrty dont' want bush in power. Think about it.

 

[Ihreil Junkenstein]

and having murderous tendancys is not a brain. it's called retarded.