Pyrus said:
if people don't sit back, what should they do? how will things get better? and are they really so bad now? you're pretty comfortable, aren't you? if you can afford to spend your time posting on the internet, life isn't all that bad. if you're concerned about the well being of others, work at a soup kitchen, the salvation army, a local community center, etc.
"If people get up and use their fucking votes for once, we can turn the system on those who manipulate it."
how? more people voting won't really change who is being voted for. the percentage of votes for one candidate over another will remain about the same. in the last presidential election bush got 48% of the vote and gore got 48% of the vote, with about 106 million people voting. if the number of voters were 150 million, bush would most likely still get 48% of the vote, and so would gore. (why? because it's a poll. those voting have pretty much the same opinions as those not voting, with the exception of being motivated to vote. the majority of the people go for the two most mainstream candidates, and the minority fragments off into a bunch of tiny groups [greens, socialists, right to life, reform, libertarian, etc]) but instead of getting 50,456,169 votes, bush would get something like 72 million, and gore, instead of getting 50,996,116 votes, would get about 72 million as well.
you might argue that it depends upon which people go to the polls. fine, but you want everyone to participate, don't you? in any case, which side is better? a real change can only occur if a minority candidate is suddenly recognized by the mainstream. that's as likely as nevermore having a top ten single instead of britney spears.
but let's say voting changes something (like if gore were proclaimed the winner, we probably wouldn't be in iraq, although that's uncertain). how do you know that people will vote the way you want them to vote? do you even know which way you want them to vote, or do you think that if more people start voting we'll suddenly have a utopia?
not all change is for the better, you know.
"The educational system's getting fucked, we're looking at war with half the world, the economy's gone to shit"
and more people voting fixes this somehow? education--you hear about the schools in oregon? people there got a big tax cut, and then didn't have enough money to keep the schools open. i guess you can say it was their voting that got them the tax cut. taxes had to be raised once again when the schools shut down. if voting actually affects anything then in this case voters fucked things up. why? because they're stupid, focus on the short term, and don't see the consequences of their actions. most people are like this. as ledmag said, people are easily led. it's easier for most people to simply follow and not think. you want more of them participating? a lynch mob is never composed of one or two people, but by a horde.
candidate A asks the people, is our educational system fucked up? they say it is. candidate A tells them he has a super duper education initiative with all the trimmings. candidate B says his is even better. they duke it out in a debate where they mostly discuss how they came from a poor family, or a rural area, or that they're tough on something or other. the people ooh and ahhh and like either A or B, not knowing or being able to understand that A and B, while seriously competing against each other for the job, are both exactly the same, funded by the same rich people and corporations, and their education plans don't really call for anything that isn't already in place. this repeats in the next election, and the one after that. people always complain about the same problems, and politicians always sell them the same solutions.
you think most people weren't worried about the state of american education in the 1950s, or 40s? or about something else, like the decay of the family? i came across an article from the christian science monitor from the 1950s. what were they complaining about? oh, our youth is becoming immoral, family values are decaying, education is going to shit, etc, and the 1900s were the good old days. it's amazing how none of these things were fixed. if they were so bad, wouldn't the country be destoryed by now?
as i recall, most americans were for the war (and as far as i know they're still for it). if more of them voted, or if they actually had a say in the matter, how would that change the outcome?
how do you propose we fix the economy? how will more people voting fix it, especially if most people don't understand economics?
