Speculation: Stereotypical? Me? How to stand out from the mass

[vespiz]

I see/hear and understand where you're coming from. It does seem a bit funny when you listen to that clip. I guess now it's not so much about sounding really different, but in the details and subtleties (in metal? never!) that fans of a certain genre go for.

Can't also discount the fact that as music business is a business, if you sound so different from what is expected, there's a fear of losing your audience. Of course it might do just the opposite and bring success (Opeth comes to mind somewhat here). Hmm.. sounds suspiciously conservative and lets face it, labels (especially the big ones) are conservative in this.

But still, I for one would like to know how to achieve that modern metal sound so that I'd know how to do that when asked and then go the opposite way when needed. Er.. right? I'd say it's just another tool in the toolbox.

At the same time, I can't help but to ask, how would you or I do things differently to make it as punchy and aggressive as that?

 

[Morgan C]

But still, I for one would like to know how to achieve that modern metal sound so that I'd know how to do that when asked and then go the opposite way when needed. Er.. right? I'd say it's just another tool in the toolbox.

Agreed.. in art you have to learn the rules before you can break them.. and it'd be very hard to create an 'out-there' mix without first mastering the 'modern metal' mix. Plus if you get clients who demand that, you have the knowledge.

That said, I prefer mixes that go a bit 'out there' rather than stay conservatively in their niche. Sure a lot of the albums they put out sound like crap, but there can be gems too. Stabbing the Drama, Are You Dead Yet, Reroute to Remain (a lot of people hate this production but I love it :/ ).. are much preferable to a mix like Ghost Reveries, IMO.
Although then you do get stuff like Come Clarity (not BAD but not great) or Soundtrack to Your Escape (blehhhhhhhhhhh).

 

[ze kink]

That is pretty much why I got bored with most metal a long time ago. Not only do most bands sound the same productionwise, they're also too damn similar in songwriting etc. too. That clip was pretty good in showing that too I think. The metal bands I like are mostly some djent bands, post-metal and experimental stuff. Luckily there still are bands such as Cult of Luna for example, who sound heavy as fuck even though their production is nothing like that, and the songs are very different too. I can easily say that Boris was many times heavier live than any of the "heavy" metal bands I've seen.

Then again, it kinda makes producers' job easier I guess, since nearly everyone is after the same sound Just get a Maxon TS, a 5150 and an Orange 4x12" or Mesa oversized 4x12" and learn to mic it and you're good to go.

 

[beyond dead]

i never got the whole "you need v30`s" thing...

 

[Behind]

Metal has been always conservative in many ways. At the very beginning it was a way of rebellion and transgression but today it has become a genre itself, and as a genre it has to sound in a particular way.

That's how I see the scene nowadays, but I'm absolutely against of that tendence. That's why I love the different subgenres that pop up sometimes and that give some fresh air to the genre.

 

[Torniojaws]

There is only so much you can do differently soundwise. The biggest factor is the distorted guitar sound, because it fills up so much of the main frequency space, and usually drives the song, that you just have to build the mix upon them. Otherwise you'll have an unclear mix.

 

[26]

IMO this is about identity. human identity as a whole. it's about how to translate your own mind into music without longing for instant style stereotypes. one (felt) note after another.
every played note says something; the more you learn the "adjectives of pitch and rythm" (that´s all music is), the more "personal speech" will appear out of your experience. this directly leads to the question for the reason of making music.
tools are secondary.

 

[Seizure.]

I've been bored with alot of aspects of modern metal basicly, and are beginning to dislike the whole list of amps and things that ahjteam has brought up just because i hear it soooo much, and all in the same way.
Not that its a bad sound, not at all!

But its the main reason i'm stearing away from the typical amps and ways of working, just because i feel like i'm not doing anything new whatsoever if i do it and it takes away the joy i have in doing this in the first place..

So i'm now basicly trying an assortment of weird vintage or new brand amps (sunn, badcat, orange, brunetti), mics (heil make awesome mics...), mic techniques i haven't heard before (m/s, Blumlein, XY..), and pedals (coron, bluebeard, fulltone..)..

Just to try and do something different, so it doesnt sound like the thing i did before..

If its only to not have to hear the 100000000th tubescreamer chunk, or samples kick and snaredrum again haha

I doesn't all sound as good, i'll give you that... but i'm sure as hell gotten alot prouder of what i'm doing the last couple of months.

 

[Jaymz]

Diamond amps?

 

[Metaltastic]

Diamond amps?

Yuk yuk yuk

 

[nwright]

Did you speak of the "Nashville Sound" in a bad way? To me, the "same ol' same ol'" tools we use for metal has the same goal as the Nashville stuff - to hit a desired level of quality so the music can be presented as well as it can.

Some tools are just known to work, for any musical genre. And, production and gear are nothing more than tools. IMO, if one begins to think metal is stale, I'd look at the bands creating the music, NOT the tools used to bring their songs to life. Just a part of it that many bands are creating similar sounds. It's always been that way.

I think really in any genre, the people who think "everything sounds the same" are the people who don't normally listen to that genre to begin with, and what they are hearing is a combination of the music created with the production values associated with said genre...Then, you have the audio engineer types who say everything sounds the same because everyone is using the same tools, seemingly ignoring the fact that they are niche players producing bands that just all write similar sounding songs. In the middle is the reality - those music fans who just listen to music and don't give a crap. As long as those fans still like their bands, and the band's strive to write the best material they can, then the tools cease to be of importance, IMHO (well, to an extent - once a desired level of quality is reached).

I'd pretty much guarantee that if someone used the same old tools to produce a Dream Theater record and a Hatebreed record, no one would go around saying they sound the same, so I have a hard time pinning down modern production as a scapegoat for redundancy in bands' sounds. Heck, most of the bands I listen to the most really do sound similar, and I have no problem with it...I like what I like.

 

[ahjteam]

Did you speak of the "Nashville Sound" in a bad way?

Nope, we didn't listen to a single second of country during the conversation. The teacher just talked about the gear that they used.


But I really have to say that I have been really interested in listening metalsongs recently that have kind of a pop'ish choruses, like Fear Factorys Archetype. I don't know why, but those just are a lot nicer to listen to. Maybe its the major chords that get thrown in, when majority of the metal is in minor chords.

 

[AdamWathan]

But I really have to say that I have been really interested in listening metalsongs recently that have kind of a pop'ish choruses, like Fear Factorys Archetype. I don't know why, but those just are a lot nicer to listen to. Maybe its the major chords that get thrown in, when majority of the metal is in minor chords.

I would say most metal uses major and minor chords... Most songs that are in any way melodic are definitely played in a minor key but there's just as many major chords in a minor key as there are minor chords and although I've never listened the Fear Factory song mentioned I would wager that chorus is minor too... Metal in a major key signature would just be... fucked.

 

[Jarkko Mattheiszen]

So, what we need is a metal band with twangy Nashville guitars instead of 5150's, ethnic percussions instead of clicky bass drums, 303 lines instead of metallic bass guitars and yodling instead of growling/screaming. Oh wait, would it be that metal anymore?

Yeah. I'll go back to listening to Clayman ->

 

[ahjteam]

I would say most metal uses major and minor chords... Most songs that are in any way melodic are definitely played in a minor key but there's just as many major chords in a minor key as there are minor chords and although I've never listened the Fear Factory song mentioned I would wager that chorus is minor too... Metal in a major key signature would just be... fucked.

You mean like this?



yeah, I'm not saying that the key isn't in minor, but listen to the song:

 

[Seizure.]

Check out the new Kylesa btw... pretty weird mix, 2 drummers panned left and right.
www.myspace.com/kylesa

Awesome music aswell, check out unknown awareness

 

[StefTD]

Check out the new Kylesa btw... pretty weird mix, 2 drummers panned left and right.
www.myspace.com/kylesa

Awesome music aswell, check out unknown awareness

sounds cool-but these guys seem to be gearheads:

BTT:
I like the sound of a 5150 through a mesa cab-but I really dislike 99% of those "metalcore" bands-for me it's no problem that many bands have a really similar sound (I mean guitar sound and so on-not music).
But there are many bands sounding similar to each other in a musical way-we played a show with a band I didn't know-after 10 seconds I knew that there will be a breakdown in the next 4 bars.

 

[ze kink]

Check out the new Kylesa btw... pretty weird mix, 2 drummers panned left and right.
www.myspace.com/kylesa

Awesome music aswell, check out unknown awareness

I've heard a few songs by them, this was good stuff! I'm digging the mix, perhaps the vocals not that much, but they're so low in the mix that they don't bother me.

Intronaut is kinda cool IMO, still haven't got their latest album though. It's sort of got a fusion of modern and "sludgy" production, plus some great fretless bass and contrabass.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZYhDtg31Wc&fmt=18[/ame]

 

[TheDude]

ahjteam: Awesome thread. Awesome sound example. Even though I don't understand Finnish: Awesome minor/major video.

 

[Fox Mulder]

sounds cool-but these guys seem to be gearheads:

BTT:
I like the sound of a 5150 through a mesa cab-but I really dislike 99% of those "metalcore" bands-for me it's no problem that many bands have a really similar sound (I mean guitar sound and so on-not music).
But there are many bands sounding similar to each other in a musical way-we played a show with a band I didn't know-after 10 seconds I knew that there will be a breakdown in the next 4 bars.

Metalcore would die out soon, just like Nu-metal did.
No offence to anyone. This is coming from a die-hard Judas Priest worshipper.