Strange notion after Fear Factory/Misery Index gig (5150 vs Ampeg)

[006]

Decapitated used Recto's on WoC I beleive, but they've been messing around with Marshalls and some other amps, I've heard.

My Dual Recto can get very tight, I don't know what the hell you guys are talking about. Learn how to use the gain knob, and develop a technique for playing...I always hear "Mesa's are too sloppy for me" and then typically I'll see the person play, and they are fucking sloppy. Don't blame an amp because you aren't a clean player. A shitload of the tone comes directly from the player's hands. A friend of mine relies on a noise gate to cover up his sloppy playing, if you turn it off...it's horrible. Even with it on, you can still hear all the string scrapings and whatnot..but admittedly it's a lot better than with it off.

Nevermind what you guys have experienced with Recto's. The Meshuggah albums using them, you have to take into consideration what we call "studio magic". Yes. It's called noise gates, compressors, limiters, mic'ing techniques, digital editing, etc., etc. All of that combined can make literally any amp sound nothing like it actually does. That said, I've still gotten my Dual Recto to sound fucking tight as shit just straight into and out of the amp, no pre/post processing. With a gate and some studio magic it can sound nearly as tight as my PowerBall, which I deem the tightest amp of all time.

Back to the topic at hand, I remember Dying Fetus using Ampeg, and several other very technical death bands over the years have been using them as well. I've never had the chance to try out those amps, but like I said over the years several bands have been using them with great results. My friend was going to buy the one that DF uses, but he found that the specific one they have is no longer made, and finding one used is next to impossible around here.

~006

 

[Fragle]

"their guitar sound was really bad, way toooooioooo thin and fizzy"
well, i dunno what they're actually using, but based on this description it sure sounds like a sansamp psa-1

 

[Carrier Flux]

My Dual Recto can get very tight, I don't know what the hell you guys are talking about. Learn how to use the gain knob, and develop a technique for playing...I always hear "Mesa's are too sloppy for me" and then typically I'll see the person play, and they are fucking sloppy. Don't blame an amp because you aren't a clean player. A shitload of the tone comes directly from the player's hands. A friend of mine relies on a noise gate to cover up his sloppy playing, if you turn it off...it's horrible. Even with it on, you can still hear all the string scrapings and whatnot..but admittedly it's a lot better than with it off.

Have you ever A/B'd between two cabs or heads with all the other gear the same and noticed that the low end responds differently between those pieces of gear? that's the difference in tightness I'm talking about. the sound of the instrument isn't 100% a result of the player, you know that.

 

[egan.]

Decapitated used Recto's on WoC I beleive, but they've been messing around with Marshalls and some other amps, I've heard.

My Dual Recto can get very tight, I don't know what the hell you guys are talking about. Learn how to use the gain knob, and develop a technique for playing...I always hear "Mesa's are too sloppy for me" and then typically I'll see the person play, and they are fucking sloppy. Don't blame an amp because you aren't a clean player. A shitload of the tone comes directly from the player's hands. A friend of mine relies on a noise gate to cover up his sloppy playing, if you turn it off...it's horrible. Even with it on, you can still hear all the string scrapings and whatnot..but admittedly it's a lot better than with it off.

~006

You sort of missed the point. I was pointing out that it was misleading for someone to post that 5150's weren't tight enough for 'meshuggah style' stuff when in fact amps that are known to have a looser character than the 5150 were actually used on mesh. records.....My point was the 5150 is plenty tight, you just might have another tone preference.

 

[006]

Actually, not really. My preference is zilch. I don't prefer one tone over another with the amps I own. I love all of the amps and tones that I have. It comes down to which amp can do what better than the other. Coming from this standpoint, I will start my rant.

My Dual Recto is much better at getting a tight Meshuggah-esque tone than my 5150 would ever be able to do. The Recto has substantially more low end than the 5150 has, and if you dial it in properly, as well as play cleanly, the Rect is tighter than the 5150 in many ways, especially which I've found for that Mesh stuff. All in all, my PowerBall owns all of my amps for the Mesh stuff, so the argument is useless at this point when bringing that amp into play. From what I've tried, several times I might add, the Recto eats the 5150 for breakfast when it comes to delivering the kind of low-end and, player and technique permitting, a very tight and nicely done tone. Sure, the 5150 is characteristically tighter than the Recto, but that really depends on what you are playing and the player himself entirely. I didn't miss any points. I simply corrected some. I own a 5150, Dual Recto, PowerBall, JCM2000, and JCM900, Mesa Mark IV, and about to own a JSX. Between all of these amps, I would take the PowerBall for anything needing extremely tight guitar tone. Right under that, I would seriously have to toss up between the Recto and the 5150, however, for Meshuggah stuff specifically where you need that spastic start-stop tightness, the Recto has defeated the 5150 in my tests. Now, if you want to say I can't dial in a 5150, pffft, if I got a Recto to sound tighter than a 5150 for that stuff, then obviously I DO know how to dial in an amp.

I'm not saying the 5150 isn't tight. I know this. It's a tight ass amp. For anything except Mesh style stuff, fo sho. You need a lot of low end for Mesh stuff, and the 5150 just doesn't compare to the Recto or PowerBall in that category, plain and simple.

~006

 

[Glenn Fricker]

For what it's worth, the heaviest band I've ever seen live was Fu Manchu at the Chicago House of Blues last summer. 2 guys, 2 JCM800's with fuzz faces, and that's it. They let the bass guitar take up all the low end, and it was absolutley crushing. It was an incredible wall of guitars... utterly fucking mindblowing.

Then, Corrosion of Conformity got up after with thier Mesa rigs and sounded tiny by comparison.

I know it sounds odd, but it's certainly food for thought.

-0z-

 

[egan.]

I'm not saying the 5150 isn't tight. I know this. It's a tight ass amp.

~006

Hey man...I'm not sure if my post read different than I intended but what is stated above was my only point. That the 5150 is tight enough for whatever...i never mentioned anything else (low end etc). So lets just agree to agree.

 

[Splat88]

My Dual Recto is much better at getting a tight Meshuggah-esque tone than my 5150 would ever be able to do. The Recto has substantially more low end than the 5150 has, and if you dial it in properly, as well as play cleanly, the Rect is tighter than the 5150 in many ways, especially which I've found for that Mesh stuff.

~006

Hmmm, my Triple Recto solo head must be a lot different form your Dual Recto. I think it sounds like balls compared to my 5150 for tight stuff. The low end is a big tub of mud on fast attacks. I can't even call my Triple tight at all and I've never ever played a tight rectifier without major help from an overdrive pedal. I use a Tech 21 double drive or a tubescreamer on mine and it really cleans it up though.

 

[Splat88]

For what it's worth, the heaviest band I've ever seen live was Fu Manchu at the Chicago House of Blues last summer. 2 guys, 2 JCM800's with fuzz faces, and that's it. They let the bass guitar take up all the low end, and it was absolutley crushing. It was an incredible wall of guitars... utterly fucking mindblowing.

Then, Corrosion of Conformity got up after with thier Mesa rigs and sounded tiny by comparison.

I know it sounds odd, but it's certainly food for thought.

-0z-

I totally agree. I've never heard live amps sound better than older Marshalls.

 

[Torniojaws]

Well, old Marshalls are all about midrange, and when you play live, there is no finetuning of guitar sound, it's all about how much midrange you can push out to be heard - the more midrange you have, the better and clearer you sound. Plain and simple.

 

[downstroy]

The two guitarists in Misery Index used Ampeg VH-140C and Peavey 5150. Guess whose guitar was damn clear and articulate, yet still growled like no other? And who could not be heard properly at all and it was all a mush?

Yes, you didn't guess it. The 5150 was completely lost and I couldn't hear a damn thing the guy played, except when he played alone. While the Ampeg was throughout the entire gig 100% clear and articulate. And from a quick search, that amp gues for about 300 euros used And I always thought 5150 was supposed to be the master of fast stuff :Smug: In fact, I got a small GAS for the Ampeg, especially since it's so cheap and sounds exceptional

And on another note:

Chris' Krank amps sounded fucking killer live

Edit:
Oh yeah, I stood right on the frontrow in the middle. The sound was very nice overall in that spot throughout the three bands (M.A.N., Misery Index & Fear Factory), though

hey i was there too on the frontrow in the right. M.A.N was unknown band until when see them on gig and they was damn good like soulfly/machine head mixed with mudvayne isanity.i like lot debut album called obey,consume,reject and of course fear factory was good too but Misery Index not my cup of tea

 

[JeffTD]

hey i was there too on the frontrow in the right. M.A.N was unknown band until when see them on gig and they was damn good like soulfly/machine head mixed with mudvayne isanity.i like lot debut album called obey,consume,reject and of course fear factory was good too but Misery Index not my cup of tea

Old thread is really old.

 

[colonel kurtz]

I remember an Ampeg guitar head back in the early 90s, that had a lock on it (an actual lock for an actual key) to lock the amps settings! I think Zakk Wylde endorsed it too! Not sure, the 90s were all about the colors man , you know! Is this the same head. I never tried it. Couldn't get it unlocked at the store!

those were the lee jackson-designed VL series

i used to have a VL-1002, and while they're fucking sweet sounding amps, they're also very unreliable - i had to sell mine because it was broken most of the time

i remember someone else around this board has one as well...

 

[Dylan S]

Holy shit! I was reading through this thread having a jolly old time and saw Jeff's post and realised just how old this thread was.

 

[cobhc]

Yeah, I thought it was something new, then realised I'd posted in it already.

 

[GarethSE]

Holy shit! I was reading through this thread having a jolly old time and saw Jeff's post and realised just how old this thread was.

Yep
For once I'm actually grateful for the epic bump!

 

[Mikaël-ange]

I think the guitarist of Misery Index plays his Ampeg VH140C with the matching Ampeg cabinet, if you want to hear the sound of the Ampeg VH140C listen to Suffocations Souls to deny

I thinked STD was Tripple XXX? EOTF and PFW are ampeg for sure.
VH140C is popular SS amp for death metal band.

Decapitated used Recto's on WoC I beleive, but they've been messing around with Marshalls and some other amps, I've heard.

My Dual Recto can get very tight, I don't know what the hell you guys are talking about. Learn how to use the gain knob, and develop a technique for playing...I always hear "Mesa's are too sloppy for me" and then typically I'll see the person play, and they are fucking sloppy. Don't blame an amp because you aren't a clean player. A shitload of the tone comes directly from the player's hands. A friend of mine relies on a noise gate to cover up his sloppy playing, if you turn it off...it's horrible. Even with it on, you can still hear all the string scrapings and whatnot..but admittedly it's a lot better than with it off.

Recto was use for The negation and OH
But I'm totally agree with you, my dual is tight at hell and really respect your playing style. But not for sloppy guitarist

 

[beyond dead]

My first gig ever was opening for misery index with my band Murdered At Random. Sparky`s ampeg is pretty dope. Im pretty sure he uses a marshall cab too.

 

[JeffTD]

Recto was use for The negation and OH

OH was half Randall Warhead and half 2ch Triple Recto, from Vogg himself.

 

[blackcom]

Guitarist = 90% of tightness.
Amp = 10% of tightness.

Want a tight sound? Learn how to play like a tight guitarist, then!

Messhugah used to play rectos FFS!