Suggest band ideas for HC 3

[skeptik]

In short: Necuratul/Zod win, JK loses!

Neil

Though, to be honest, skinheads show up to Metal shows no matter what. I've seen them at every show I've ever been to. I've seen them at Blind Guardian/Symphony X. I've seen them at Overkill. I've seen them at festivals with no even remotely racist bands. Honestly, the only shows that have a lot of skinheads are entirely NS shows, like Grand Belial's Key or something, where there have to been secret promoters giving out secret directions to go to a secret location to attend a secret concert. Other than that, you're probably going to get skinheads no matter what, because they listen to Metal. Especially in Minnesota. I mean, come on, what else is there to do? I'm sure there were skinheads at the previous two Heathen Crusades, whether you saw them or not, as they would be attracted enough by the title of the festival.

 

[JayKeeley]

This again?

Christ, what the fuck does winning or losing have to do with it? If I'm speculating on behalf of promoters then why are all of you thinking that *I'm* the one making the decisions?

You're stirring up shit because *I'm* the one who posted the message about the HC promoters saying they won't have NS (or NS related) bands playing at HC.

And again, maybe it has NOTHING to do with who turns up, but perhaps promoters don't want to be related to anything deemed racist ON PRINCIPLE? Even if only regular metal folks show up, it's the principle of not wanting to support something NS? Isn't this the Wacken position too? This is their perogative, so you all need to take your argument up with promoters world-wide, not me.

And even if Drudkh aren't strictly NS, then their alter-ego's are. Maybe that's enough for them to make the decision?

But who knows!? Maybe Drudkh will play, and I'll be front row and center. I don't think they've ever played but still...

And now Neil will break this post into 37 little sentences and respond to every little segment, piece by piece.

 

[Dark One]

In short: Necuratul/Zod win, JK loses!

This again?

Christ, what the fuck does winning or losing have to do with it?

I understand why you would think there's a serious undertone here, but believe me, on a scale from 0-100, with 100 being the most serious, Neil's post scores a 0. My post right here scores 100.

Ok, no more sucking up and this is the last time I'll defend him here; obviously the passage of time will aid you in making up your own mind. I just feel I can be somewhat useful in these situations because I've witnessed his posting for years, that's all.

Jason

 

[skeptik]

I don't know about you, (actually I do), but I haven't been talking pragmatically since like...the first page. I've been speaking in hypothetical, idyllic terms of how I feel things should be judged. Which obviously doesn't reflect reality and probably isn't even terribly realistic, at least for most people. I didn't mean to imply anything negative about the promoters of HC. I just ed because I like the idea of having won something.

 

[JayKeeley]

@Jason: That's not it at all. I feel like I'm having to explain on behalf of the promoters (anywhere in the world) why they might not want NS bands to show up to their concerts.

I'm not anti-NS. I own all the Drudkh albums, I told you to buy the Nok Mortum CD at HC...fuck, why am I even explaining myself on my own forum?

The other debate is whether the Drudkh band members are NS or not. At this point, I don't care! We've established that their music and imagery is not, but certain other aspects of the band or the band members lives are. I don't know them personally, and neither does anyone here, so what's up with that? How is anyone an authority on the subject of who they are and what they stand for?

 

[JayKeeley]

I don't know about you, (actually I do), but I haven't been talking pragmatically since like...the first page. I've been speaking in hypothetical, idyllic terms of how I feel things should be judged. Which obviously doesn't reflect reality and probably isn't even terribly realistic, at least for most people. I didn't mean to imply anything negative about the promoters of HC.

Fuck that. You jumped down my throat and said shit like "did someone hack into your account?". Absolute bullshit Necuratul, and you know it.

 

[skeptik]

But that's because I thought what you said was completely stupid, and at the same time you kept attempting to reframe my argument to the thread where I clearly diverged and was speaking more generally. Not that I didn't regret saying that immediately after I posted it, but I was frustrated with where the argument was heading because you didn't seem to understand what I was saying. I'm also not sure what you're calling "absolute bullshit" though, could you explain that? I think I was pretty clear in the fact that I was speaking generally, and not specifically about HC or any other festival. I mean, it would be retarded to discuss this pragmatically because Drudkh doesn't even play live. This is entirely hypothetical.

 

[Dark One]

@Jason: That's not it at all. I feel like I'm having to explain on behalf of the promoters (anywhere in the world) why they might not want NS bands to show up to their concerts.

Ok, no prob, I was responding to that particular sentence about it not being about winning or losing.

I'm not anti-NS. I own all the Drudkh albums, I told you to buy the Nok Mortum CD at HC...fuck, why am I even explaining myself on my own forum?

LOL

 

[JayKeeley]

But that's because I thought what you said was completely stupid, and at the same time you kept attempting to reframe my argument to the thread where I clearly diverged and was speaking more generally. Not that I didn't regret saying that immediately after I posted it, but I was frustrated with where the argument was heading because you didn't seem to understand what I was saying. I'm also not sure what you're calling "absolute bullshit" though, could you explain that? I think I was pretty clear in the fact that I was speaking generally, and not specifically about HC or any other festival. I mean, it would be retarded to discuss this pragmatically because Drudkh doesn't even play live. This is entirely hypothetical.

No, I'm saying what's bullshit is the way you lashed out at me and started posting crap nazi imagery just to drill the point home about your closet love for all things nazi. People are entitled to have different opinions, and I'm CERTAINLY entitled to my opinion in my own domain. I don't give a crap how opposed you are to what my thought process is, especially since my posts have been speculative as to why promoters won't book NS bands, or where Drudkh fall into the NS category by any association.

And by the way, how am I reframing yours or anyone's argument when I'm the one who's supposedly deciding Drudkh's fate in the matter, like I'm the one who decides which bands get to play? It's just entirely fucking stupid.

 

[JayKeeley]

Ok, no prob, I was responding to that particular sentence about it not being about winning or losing.

By the way, weren't you standing right next to me during this discussion with the HC guys?

 

[M.Lehto]

Few small things:

- I can assume Drudkh doesn't play live, they don't even give interviews

- I have the ...White People - shirt, it's an official shirt, so now you can start to hate them and sell me the extra vinyls you have (though I have em all)

Anyway, a great band, I heard the next full lenght will be awesome, but before that, there will be the cover 10", Anti Urban.

 

[JayKeeley]

- I have the ...White People - shirt, it's an official shirt, so now you can start to hate them and sell me the extra vinyls you have (though I have em all)

Haha, well actually I do have the vinyl for Swan Road which I want to sell, simply because I don't like that album. I don't like their last folky thing release either.

Now that I think about it, they're a pretty hit and miss band for me. The debut, AA, and Blood in our Wells are great, the other two are plain horrible. Weird.

 

[skeptik]

No, I'm saying what's bullshit is the way you lashed out at me and started posting crap nazi imagery just to drill the point home about your closet love for all things nazi.

First of all, I already said that I regret what I said. Secondly, what is this about "closet love for all things nazi?" Surely you're joking, I thought it was fairly obvious that my posting of the Nazi imagery was in jest in response to your inquiry as to whether or not I was white, which seemed to imply that I must be some kind of Aryan identifier. Completely in jest.

People are entitled to have different opinions, and I'm CERTAINLY entitled to my opinion in my own domain.

Really now? Haven't noticed...

I don't give a crap how opposed you are to what my thought process is, especially since my posts have been speculative as to why promoters won't book NS bands, or where Drudkh fall into the NS category by any association.

I'm not opposed to your thought process. The problem is that while you're speaking in the context of the promoters of Heathen Crusade and why they may or may not book specific bands, I'm speaking in a broader context irrelevant of specific issues and events, and probably not even very realistic, so we're kind of not even on the same point. I guess the problem arose where I kept trying to diverge the discussion to something more broadly which I felt was an important topic, whereas you were trying to stay on topic.

And by the way, how am I reframing yours or anyone's argument when I'm the one who's supposedly deciding Drudkh's fate in the matter, like I'm the one who decides which bands get to play? It's just entirely fucking stupid.

You were reframing my argument in the context of Heathen Crusade and their promoting methods when I wasn't talking about that at all. That frustrated me a bit and that is reflected in my posts during that time period. Like I've already said, I regret posting at that time in the heat of the moment, accompanied by some other issues I'm dealing with right now that probably adversely affected my tolerance and patience, and for that I apologize.

 

[M.Lehto]

Haha, well actually I do have the vinyl for Swan Road which I want to sell, simply because I don't like that album. I don't like their last folky thing release either.

Now that I think about it, they're a pretty hit and miss band for me. The debut, AA, and Blood in our Wells are great, the other two are plain horrible. Weird.

I never really enjoyed Swan Road before, but few weeks ago I just listened it again as I was a bit bored with the similar sound between the other albums and once you get past the different, more Hate Forest-fitting production, the album sounded really good. Now it's like this lost Drudkh-album, that I can listen like a new one.

The acoustic album failed a bit, because they used piazzo-electric instead of an real acoustic, nylon stringed guitars (maybe because of the money), also more variation and more themes would've been needed. It's a good album, but honestly, those could have been done a lot better.

EDIT - The vinyl-version of the acoustic album should be out within a month + the second vinyl by Dark Ages.

 

[Dark One]

By the way, weren't you standing right next to me during this discussion with the HC guys?

HUH? Sure I was, but I wasn't even remotely trying to or am even interested in making a comment about the whole NS discussion. I know 100% for certain you don't have an NS (or for that matter an anti-NS) bone in your body and also were just commentating/speculating based on what you heard. I can back you 100% though on what you heard, no question about it.

BTW, I really dig that NM cd that you recommended to me - and for no other reason than the music rules.

Jason

 

[En Vind Av Sorg]

Just a little comment- you guys are all insane

Honestly though, I think some of you are taking this a little to personal/serious. Drudkh is awesome. They could play live and have giant spinning swastikas on fire with inverted crosses and photos from the holocaust playing in the background and they would STILL be awesome

I think the point is, whether or not the band wants to be, they are and probably always will be labeled as NS/Racist/whatever. Its not soley on lyrical content, its not soley on band members views or pasts- its a package deal. If it offends you, ohh well, move on. I dont care what the "Roman" brothers or KK Warslut or anyone do on there free time honestly.

As long as there is some connection to the NS scene, even in a small insignifigant way, it will become a pariah on a band. Thats just the way things are.

 

[skyrefuge]

Argh, that "win/lose" was just pure forum-silliness! I guess I needed to include a at the end.

I completely understand a promoter choosing to not book NS-related bands purely on principle. I'm just saying that such a promoter still needs some practical basis on which to draw the line (e.g. what if it's only their newly-acquired drummer who's a nazi?) To me, Drudkh seems like it's enough of a gray area that it's hard to decide either way. If you're booking on principle, you almost have to read the minds of the members to know what they truly believe. And at that point, it just makes more sense to me to look at the practical outcome (who is going to show up and cause trouble?) instead. But obviously every promoter doesn't have to do what I think makes sense!

When you said "When it comes to the promoters, I think it's more to do with who the people are", I thought you were speaking for all promoters, and I disagreed with that, because I think most promoters care a lot more about their bottom line than they do about principle. But now I see you were probably talking specifically about the HC guys, so yeah, if you know that they will book no NS-related bands, and you know they consider Drudkh to be a NS-related band, then there's no discussion.

I think we've just been going off on the idea that other promoters wouldn't necessarily see Drudkh as being NS-related, and might book them even if they did have a "no NS" policy.

Whew, that was hard to not quote anything, I feel like that Bud Light stuntman who had to avoid looking at the table full of hot girls for 15 seconds! Someone get me a Bud Light, stat! erk: or not...)

Neil

 

[Dark One]

Argh, that "win/lose" was just pure forum-silliness! I guess I needed to include a at the end.

That and have been thoroughly adopted around here. Trust me, emoticon Neil = less misunderstood Neil.

When you said "When it comes to the promoters, I think it's more to do with who the people are", I thought you were speaking for all promoters, and I disagreed with that, because I think most promoters care a lot more about their bottom line than they do about principle. But now I see you were probably talking specifically about the HC guys, so yeah, if you know that they will book no NS-related bands, and you know they consider Drudkh to be a NS-related band, then there's no discussion.

Yeah, again, I can atest to the fact that he "definitely" rather than "probably" was.

Whew, that was hard to not quote anything, I feel like that Bud Light stuntman who had to avoid looking at the table full of hot girls for 15 seconds!

<--- this one of course works well....er..... as well.

 

[Doom]

The Autumn Aurora LP goes for shit loads of e-bay. I don't know why I never got it when it was released . I have "Forgotten Legends" and "The Swan Road" on vinyl but honestly, I think Autumn Aurora is their only really great album so far.

 

[Krilons Resa]

This thread is fucking stupid....or it has turned into stupidity anyways.

Seriously, WTF!?