lately i've been doing a few productions where i am dealing with real drums and quantizing them manually by hand (cut, slip, crossfade).
and i've been wondering... with recently metal productions being so spot on yet still having real drums (usually cymbals are the only thing left), i question the "pocketing" techniques being used.
take devil driver for instance. clouds over california.
the kicks and snares are in fact samples (steven slate it sounds like), and they are perfectly on time.
i've taken time to sit down and pocket a drum track until the wave forms are at least within 1 ms of the grid. with a good drummer, this is easily accomplished (and the guy was very good).
even so, when i completed this, the faster sections weren't exactley 100% to the grid like you hear on more recent metal records. and yes i cut every hit, even on 16th triplet notes. and to be fair to the drummer, he was well within 5ms range to nailing every passage.
so i've done that and then programmed the same type of section which sounds a bit different. it has the quality that i am hearing in perfect productions, the exactness to grid. and these guys (like jason) are pulling it off very well. even though there's a minor mistake here and there (a cymbal edit flange at the end of clouds over california!!), the basic model of replaced kick and snare with the original quantized overheads works perfectly.
the one thing i am having trouble figuring out is how to achieve the exactness to grid and make it work with the quantized overheads. if i keep the overheads and put the kick and snares in midi form so they are snap to grid, i end up hearing the old beats here and there in minor spots (super tiny, like less than a quick fallam). are these guys just that good at pocketing drums and i need to step it up somehow? or is there something else going on i know nothing about?
i was looking at the rockband rip of the devil driver song and the snare hits were so small in amplitude on the overhead track, and that could maybe be the only thing im missing, getting that snare and kick out of the oh's as much as possible.
i should also mention i've had success with making the oh's work with regular manual quantize and beat replace by using a transient modifier to get rid of the snare transients in the oh track. i havent had success doing this with quantized oh and grid drums (kick snare toms).
and i've been wondering... with recently metal productions being so spot on yet still having real drums (usually cymbals are the only thing left), i question the "pocketing" techniques being used.
take devil driver for instance. clouds over california.
the kicks and snares are in fact samples (steven slate it sounds like), and they are perfectly on time.
i've taken time to sit down and pocket a drum track until the wave forms are at least within 1 ms of the grid. with a good drummer, this is easily accomplished (and the guy was very good).
even so, when i completed this, the faster sections weren't exactley 100% to the grid like you hear on more recent metal records. and yes i cut every hit, even on 16th triplet notes. and to be fair to the drummer, he was well within 5ms range to nailing every passage.
so i've done that and then programmed the same type of section which sounds a bit different. it has the quality that i am hearing in perfect productions, the exactness to grid. and these guys (like jason) are pulling it off very well. even though there's a minor mistake here and there (a cymbal edit flange at the end of clouds over california!!), the basic model of replaced kick and snare with the original quantized overheads works perfectly.
the one thing i am having trouble figuring out is how to achieve the exactness to grid and make it work with the quantized overheads. if i keep the overheads and put the kick and snares in midi form so they are snap to grid, i end up hearing the old beats here and there in minor spots (super tiny, like less than a quick fallam). are these guys just that good at pocketing drums and i need to step it up somehow? or is there something else going on i know nothing about?
i was looking at the rockband rip of the devil driver song and the snare hits were so small in amplitude on the overhead track, and that could maybe be the only thing im missing, getting that snare and kick out of the oh's as much as possible.
i should also mention i've had success with making the oh's work with regular manual quantize and beat replace by using a transient modifier to get rid of the snare transients in the oh track. i havent had success doing this with quantized oh and grid drums (kick snare toms).