Svenska for begynnere

[Mantis]

I'm trying to learn swedish and I noticed that in the swedish singing of Mr V there are some particularities that my swedish book doesn't report, could anyone tell me if it's normal or just dialect pronunciation? for example (using english as pronunciation reference)
The final "s" in some word such as "fors" is pronunced not as a "s" but something like a "sh"
The "e" in word such as "sken" "prophet" is pronunced as "i" of "sin" and not "e" of "bet"
The "g" in word such as "givit" "gygra" is pronunced as "j" of john and not as "g" of "get"
The "h" in "hjalpen" sound like "j (of john)elpen"
The "g" in "kargas" "bergsidor" seems to disappear for a "i" = "karias"

 

[Gaunerin]

usually all books have an introduction in which the rules for the pronunciation are explained. you will also find a brief guide in all dictionaries I guess.
I'm unfortunately no expert in Swedish (yet ) but all your above stated words are examples for these rules and no dialect or whatsoever.

a few examples:

- "rs" merge to what you name "sh"
- "g" before e, i, y, ä, ö is pronounced "j", otherwise it stays "g"
- combinations like "hj", "dj" etc. more or less make the first letter irrelevant, thus only the "j"

there are tons of other rules for letter "k" or combinations like "sk" for instance.

 

[Gaunerin]

oh and yeah......I seem to be the neverending source of swedish links.........here's a guide with examples:
http://web.hhs.se/isa/swedish/chap9.htm

 

[Melancholia]

Hello there!!!
Great that you are learning swedish I'm not swedish,but i adore this language,it's my favourite foreign one

soooooooooooo,

The final "s" in some word such as "fors" is pronunced not as a "s" but something like a "sh"

yup,that's true....in standard swedish (rikssvenska) r+s becomes a thick "s", like the english "sh"
Btw, r+d becomes a thick d and r+t becomes a thick "t" and also r+n form a thick "n".....It's difficult to describe the last 3 cases exactly cause there are no english equivalents.......imagine somehow that the d,t,n becom thicker and the "r" somehow is not pronounced....

The "e" in word such as "sken" "prophet" is pronunced as "i" of "sin" and not "e" of "bet"

I don't know if it is regional...i have no idea......in standard swedish, the "e" is "e" like bet,but in some words when it is long (like in the word "vet") it becomes a long "e" which sometimes sounds sth like between "i" and "e"

The "g" in word such as "givit" "gygra" is pronunced as "j" of john and not as "g" of "get"

hmmmmmm not exactly like the "j" in john....it rather becomes like the "y" in "yes","yoghurt" etc.... The g becomes that way in front of the vowels "i","e","y","φ","δ" and also after "l" and "g"....

The "h" in "hjalpen" sound like "j (of john)elpen"

well....."hj" is actually pronounced like the "y" in "yes"....and the same happens with "dj","lj" and "gj".......

The "g" in "kargas" "bergsidor" seems to disappear for a "i" = "karias"

Look at the part about "g".....

I hope the above will help you a bit Good luck with it!!!
all the above stuff vary in dialects,btw...

I searched on the net for a pronounciation guide......maybe the following will help you:

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/1290/pronounce.html

it's 10 months now that i have finished with my swedish lessons and i miss this language so much!!!!!!!!!!!! I especially miss speaking it,cause okey there is somehow nothing to "learn" anymore, at least not with student books,grammars and stuff.... now it's just some strange words i sometimes come across in books or newspapers or poetry....
Nowadays i read a lot of swedish books and it's superpleasant :Spin:

to all the Vintersorg forumers ) I haven't been here for a looooong time.....and well,FV was here some minutes ago and so i discovered that thread ))
I miss this place
Take care all of you,both the people that were here when i used to post and the new people that i haven't got to know...

/trollaki

 

[Nordabrand]

Oh god...you people want to learn our language??? Jesus...swedish is messed up, it's my disturbing mothertongue, and let me adivse you that since both Mr.V and myself are from the northern part of sweden..our, or atleast my...dialect in swedish is VERY different from the south swedes...the swedes down in the south of sweden are twats compared to us northern ones , we're the tough ones!! We're often called "the lumberjacks" just based on our dialect...I guess they find it...UNPROPER...durrrr...oh well. Gluck with it! I can help ya out or give me some of my fine swedish texts if you want to!

Best regards,

Nordabrand aka Christopher A.

 

[Steingrim]

Bah, learn Norwegian instead! The only tr00 language!

 

[Somber Soul]

Hey, what a nice thread.


@ Mantis: All the things you mention are normal rules of Swedish pronunciation. However, bear in mind that Vintersorg speaks with a Norrland accent, thus he would pronounce combinations like "sk" and "sj" in a different way than someone from father south. He'd say "sh", whereas they'd say something like "ch" (a fricative sound, not unlike German "ch" in "ich" but not the same of course; just to give you a hint).

Bah, learn Norwegian instead! The only tr00 language!

Well, now that I've learnt Swedish, I'm moving on to Norwegian. Damn right.

 

[Mantis]

Thanx all for your help, I'm also trying to learn norwegian Steingrim don't you worry ) So there's also in Sweden this difference between North and South, somewhere I read that "true" swedish is that from Gotland because older, even if I think it's a stupid consideration; as I see so many asnswered me, can anyone finally tell me how is the pronunciation, both sweden, norwegian, of the "y" ? In my book it says like a "iu", but i never heard a norwegian i.e. say "syv"= "sjuv" except in my encarta encyclopedia, and a girl from Oslo told me that it was said like a long "i". To sum up "nye" is pronunced "niue" - "nie" - "niie" ?

 

[Melancholia]

uhhhhhhh,how is the "y" pronounced.......well,it's difficult to explain it with words...it's sth like a fat "y",at least in swedish...
I think there is a soundfile of it in the page i linked in my previous post.....

where are you from btw???

Uff,i imagine that trying to learn swedish and norwegian at the same time must be a confusing pain in the ass some words are so much alike!! The cool is that if you know one of the two languages you can understand the other quite well,too......

/trollaki

 

[Arch]

Yes, learning Swedish for someone whose main language is English can be a surprise.

"Slut" isn't what it is in English.
"Faktisk" sounds like "f*ck this".
"kött" sounds like "shit"
There's "infart", "utfart", and "Slöfock".

 

[Somber Soul]

Swedish long "y" is pronounced somewhere in-between a German "ü" and an actual "i" but closer to the latter. So it might sound like a long "i" to you anyway. The short Swedish "y", on the other hand, like in "mycket" sounds more like German "ü". But were talking about approximations here. These are not the same sounds.

Oh, and if you have no idea what the German "ü" sounds like, this probably didn't help. But "ü"s and "ä"s and "ö"s are exactly the sounds that speakers of other languages have problems with.

Uff,i imagine that trying to learn swedish and norwegian at the same time must be a confusing pain in the ass some words are so much alike!! The cool is that if you know one of the two languages you can understand the other quite well,too......

Quite true. I learnt Swedish and can understand quite a bit of Norwegian, too. Then I had a look at actual grammar books. And it's easier to go from Swedish to Norwegian, in my opinion, since it simpler in certain areas (noun declension is MUCH simpler than in Swedish, for instance). So, for me, Norwegian is actually a blessing grammar-wise. I can suddenly forget about all those different noun classes that I know from Swedish. Of course, Norwegian is difficult in other areas (semantics probably being one of them).

 

[Nordabrand]

Hah, I cant be bothered to post any info about swedish , too tired, haha.

Anyway, learn to speak nordish swedish! That's the good one...south swedes (as I said before) are just wannabe-swedes.

Oh and another hint, learn swedish FIRST, norwegian is so much easier to understand. Once you've learnt swedish, treat norwegian as if it was swedish! I am telling you...I can speak fluent norwegian and I never practicied it in my entire life! Det er ja kjempegodt! Unlike the swedish, norwegian is very...swift and abrupt, no long and slow words...it goes like "chop chop chop chop chop!!", all at once and nothing more!

I still cant believe foreign people want to learn our language...geez. I'll write something in nordish dialect, see if you understand it (it's the way I speak )

Here goes:
Hja, va säg du om å fare ti Saterhöle? Ja ha ve me nalta svartsot'n, da könn vi ju kik från uppa snörjbacka, he bli ju finnt de!

Alright, I doubt even my SOUTHERN swedish FAKE citizens understand that...with their "Stockholmska"........

Alright, once again, good luck! The Y is pronounced as in "needy".

Best regards,

Nordabrand aka Christopher A.

PS. Since you know a bit, perhaps you could tell me what my name means ?

 

[Vintersägen]

I didn't understand almost anything... just the "you" and "we"... but i'm very new yet in swedish. But your name is something like "Nordic fire" or "Fire from the North", right? I'm a little bit out of time to learn swedish in the moment(I'll have to do the biggest test of my life in less than 4 months... something like the American SATs...). But next year I'll try it harder.
I don't know why you, Nordabrand, don't believe there are foreigns trying to learn swedish... It's the most beautiful language ever!
And it's so hard to learn it because my mothertongue it's(unfortunately) portuguese(I hate portuguese... it's so ugly and difficult) and i can't even talk english very well. I wish I was born swedish...
Oh, and about the pronunciation... I pronunciation guide for swedish is mr. V songs... So I was talking Norrland swedish and didn't realized it... Niiiiiice!

Just one more thing: Can someone tell me what the word "Otyg" mean?
Thanks!

 

[Melancholia]

quick,quick,quick,cause i'm in a hurry"!!!

Here goes:
Hja, va säg du om å fare ti Saterhöle? Ja ha ve me nalta svartsot'n, da könn vi ju kik från uppa snörjbacka, he bli ju finnt de!

För det första,du talar konstigt
För det andra,jag tror att du skrivit: "Vad säger du om att fara till Saterhöle???" och sen "jag har varit med ____ svartsoten (eerrrrr???), då kan vi ju kika från uppe på snörjbacka, det blir ju finnt det!!"....
Vinner jag något pris??



Stockholmska låter bra =) Det är sydsvenskarna som talar konstigt med det där skorrande r:et, som jag inte tål
nä,jag skämtar bara

Btw,i would translate your name as "nothern fire"....

Okay,okay
/melancholia

 

[Blackspirit]

Bah, learn Norwegian instead! The only tr00 language!

\,,/

 

[Mantis]

Quote:
where are you from btw???

I'm from Italy, actually I'm attending my last year at University, studying languages, I already know English and Spanish, a little French (studied for 5 years) and I can easily read Norwegian even if I listen to a norwegian-speaker I woulndn't understand a thing (pretty unusual to find a norwegian here in southern italy to talk to) and yes I started to learn norwegian so the passage to sweden wasn't painless, even if some structure and words are similar, now I understand the pronunciation of "y" but to those who talk norwegian what about "jeg" I've listened to a variety of pronunciation for example a guy from Bergen said "jei" one from Oslo "jai" one from telemark "eg" where is the truth, did I meet dislessic people? or what?

 

[Somber Soul]

The thing to understand about Swedish and Norwegian is that there is no standard form, unlike in English for which you have RP or General American, for instance. Or German for which you have "Hochdeutsch". So, all of the variations you've heard are acceptable. "Eg", I'd say, is more dialectal, though. It's also the form you'd use when speaking "nynorsk". Anyone more learned in Norwegian please correct me, if I'm wrong.

 

[Gaunerin]

@ Mantis: try to press ALT + 142 and ALT + 132 ....that _should_ result in Ä and ä

 

[Somber Soul]

And while we're at it:

ALT+0229 = å
ALT+0246 = ö


And for norsk:

ALT+0230 = æ
ALT+0248 = ø

 

[Arch]

Anyone know how to get these ASCII characters (å, ö, ä, ...) in Linux, besides copy-and-pasting?