Talk About Uncomfortable ...

[drew_drummer]

Actually, yes gender does refer to gender identity. Sex refers to the biological sex, genitals, hormones, etc.

Hmm. Not sure I really agree.

Gender is a range of differences between women and men.

Gender identity is a factor of how much you identify with a gender - and everyone has a certain amount of both - unless you're from Texas... then you're 100% masculine, even the women.

I kid. I kid.

So if I say my gender is male... that doesn't mean my identity is entirely male. And this goes some way to explaining the psychology of the issue.

 

[22km Tombstone]

Hmm. Not sure I really agree.

Gender is a range of differences between women and men.

Gender identity is a factor of how much you identify with a gender - and everyone has a certain amount of both - unless you're from Texas... then you're 100% masculine, even the women.

I kid. I kid.

Haha, I did laugh a bit

You are right though, I was a little off. However what I was really trying to illlustrate is that people often use "sex" (as in biological sex) and "gender" interchangeably, when they are not the same thing.

 

[drew_drummer]

Agreed on that point.

Dunno... I've never felt like chopping my cock off would improve my sense of well being.

I wonder if anyone goes the whole way through it, and then regrets it?

 

[22km Tombstone]

Agreed on that point.

Dunno... I've never felt like chopping my cock off would improve my sense of well being.

I wonder if anyone goes the whole way through it, and then regrets it?

I'm with you on that one, but I can't imagine the feeling of being THAT uncomfortable with my own body.

I'm sure there might be some, but I would reckon that most probably wouldn't regret it - as far as I'm aware, you need to be tested to confirm you have a gender dysphoria severe enough to be diagnosed with gender identity disorder. Only then can you get the surgery, hormones, drugs, etc. At least in Canada, I think.

Once going through all that, I would imagine most would have a feeling of relief. I understand it can be a long road to being comfortable with their body, but that must feel good to take the first step.

 

[lolzgreg]

I want to say we should make a rule that "if you look like a girl, you have to use the ladies' room," but that would mean half the bands on Warped every year since 2004 would be banned from the men's room.

 

[TravisW]

When you think of it, there is no real social or evolutionary precedent to the whole sex change phenomenon. Consequently, it's bound to ignite the "WTF-response" in a whole lot of people.

 

[Skinny Viking]

We're talking about humans, not dogs.

I don't think there's ever been a dog with body or gender dysphoria.

how would you know?

 

[22km Tombstone]

When you think of it, there is no real social or evolutionary precedent to the whole sex change phenomenon. Consequently, it's bound to ignite the "WTF-response" in a whole lot of people.

Absolutely, myself included.. it creates a lot of discomfort for people.

It's good to learn about, and quite interesting too. It affects quite a lot of people (still a small minority, but all the same)!

 

[22km Tombstone]

how would you know?

Touché

Seriously, not trying to be argumentative for the sake of it, but it appears to be a human-only situation.. Can never be sure though I guess!

 

[Skinny Viking]

^ right

Don't let my beautiful smile fool you .. I was being dead serious

but it also goes back to what Travis said a few minutes ago

there is no social or evolutionary precedent ... its only recently with the advent of certain medical / surgical procedures that this has even become an issue.

What did people do in this situation a couple hundred years ago? They assumed they were gay and went through life, sometimes happy, sometimes sneaky ... or sometimes they killed themselves (or others)

Point being that it never got as complicated as it is today

The fact that some animals partake in gay sex for various reasons also makes a small case for the idea that this could in some way affect animals too ... but would they know? Probably not and I don't know if they would be any happier or unhappier if they actually DID know.

I guess my real thought is that it all seems like its overcomplicated itself but hey I'm a simple, if pretty fuckin tolerant, lad

 

[22km Tombstone]

^ right

Don't let my beautiful smile fool you .. I was being dead serious

but it also goes back to what Travis said a few minutes ago

there is no social or evolutionary precedent ... its only recently with the advent of certain medical / surgical procedures that this has even become an issue.

What did people do in this situation a couple hundred years ago? They assumed they were gay and went through life, sometimes happy, sometimes sneaky ... or sometimes they killed themselves (or others)

Point being that it never got as complicated as it is today

The fact that some animals partake in gay sex for various reasons also makes a small case for the idea that this could in some way affect animals too ... but would they know? Probably not and I don't know if they would be any happier or unhappier if they actually DID know.

I guess my real thought is that it all seems like its overcomplicated itself but hey I'm a simple, if pretty fuckin tolerant, lad

I was serious too, there really is no way (I'm aware of) to know.
And I completely agree with you on all your points there

And while it's true it's never been more complicated than the present, at least some of these people who might otherwise kill themselves or what not, can now get at least SOME form of help to feel more like themselves and be productive, etc.

 

[Mutant]

I also remember seeing a show about this subject on the Discovery channel, they talked about someone who was born with both male and female sex organs and the doctor who decided which organ to cut off when that someone was still a little baby.

Later when that person was a teenager, he/she commited a suicide because of incompatibility between mind and body genders...

Obviously the doctor made a wrong decision.

 

[Skyweaver]

I worked with a guy I thought was into power metal cause he constantly had long blonde hair etc.....and then he got a sex change - no big deal.......

 

[Skinny Viking]

I also remember seeing a show about this subject on the Discovery channel, they talked about someone who was born with both male and female sex organs and the doctor who decided which organ to cut off when that someone was still a little baby.

Later when that person was a teenager, he/she commited a suicide because of incompatibility between mind and body genders...

Obviously the doctor made a wrong decision.

Most likely the parents made the decision

 

[Mutant]

Most likely the parents made the decision

Based on what experience ???

The doctor just told them that the child will be better off with gender A instead of gender B and they believed him and then gave an OK for the surgical procedure.

 

[SocialNumb]

Based on what experience ???

The doctor just told them that the child will be better off with gender A instead of gender B and they believed him and then gave an OK for the surgical procedure.

Hence, the parents made the decision.

Am I missing something or is there a language barrier?

 

[Mutant]

Hence, the parents made the decision.

Am I missing something or is there a language barrier?

OK then i will give you an example

During your yearly routine health check, your doctor sees something strange on your neck, he tells you that it is a cancer and he has to cut it out or you will die in 3 months.

Is it his decision to call it a cancer even when it may be something else, or is it your decision to not have it operated and finally die ?

When a doctor tells me something i usually believe him and believe that any procedures he suggests will be good for me, so it is not really a matter of my decision.

 

[SocialNumb]

^I guess you have faith in people. I don't. I would decide to get several opinions on the matter and decide myself what to do after. That's me though.

I imagine I would do the same with my newborn. I might even wait it out given the situation we are talking about. All I know is I'm going to make the final decision to the best of my ability.

 

[Limak]

^I guess you have faith in people. I don't. I would decide to get several opinions on the matter and decide myself what to do after. That's me though.

I imagine I would do the same with my newborn. I might even wait it out given the situation we are talking about. All I know is I'm going to make the final decision to the best of my ability.

I wouldn't call it "faith in people". It's basically entrusting certain things to certain experts. If my electric network doesn't work I don't google how to fix it or "get several opinions", I simply get some electrician to fix it. Same goes with everything, including health. Medicine doctors are experts in this field and it's not a matter of faith in people to trust them. They might not always be right(they are humans afterall), but they know their shit better than regular people(if they didn't our life expectancy wouldnt be so high nowdays, so my wild guess is they are right most of the time). That's why Mutant is right on this one.

 

[John_C]

Getting a second opinion on any serious medical issue is a wise move, especially if surgery is involved. Sometimes something isn't a "mistake" as such, just a matter of opinion. I've been to several doctors with similar problems and they all have different attitudes towards surgery, medication, lifestyle etc...