the altered state of consciousness thread
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Vimana
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I think I know what you mean, then again meditative states aren't always the easiest things to explain.
I want to take a week or so off of work at some point, leave civilization, and do prolonged ego death, hopefully to the point that it's permanent. I'm getting more and more sick of the ego as I keep meditating. I'm finding it tiring to want to be a certain thing when I lack an understanding of the universe and the predictive methods with which to actualize any passionate dream I may have. I don't like the core of the irrelevant thoughts I think about what's good and bad or better or worse, and I don't like grappling with all of the merits and flaws of ideas I've taken in from people or come up with myself that seem simultaneously hypothetically-plausible and incomplete.
It also gets more and more disheartening to be totally captured by the power of my senses and the underlying of mystery of existence and then have it broken by the condition of wondering what's happening at work later, who thinks what, who's doing what in the world, how it affects me, how it affects everyone, etc.
Overall, I'm finding this growing tension between the reality of my emotions and the total mystery of existence. My ability to reconcile my emotions with what I experience keeps dissipating. The only thing I can hold onto is neophilia, but that's also pretty dubious. All of the ideas I read about justice, all of the life advice I've ever been given, and all of the ideas I've come up with, also fall into that same doubt.
But paradoxically, this whole state of doubt feels very certain and like it's leading somewhere good where my questions will be answered. The mundane things of life, like money, social status, etc. feel like distractions to finding this. And the weirdest thing about this it's something that isn't quite logical or emotional. I end up feeling it more and more as I dive deeper past paradoxes of my own nature and when I'm in meditative states. I think once I really rid myself of distractions and find a nice, quiet place where I can't be interrupted, I'll figure it out, or at least cover a good distance.
I want to take a week or so off of work at some point, leave civilization, and do prolonged ego death, hopefully to the point that it's permanent. I'm getting more and more sick of the ego as I keep meditating. I'm finding it tiring to want to be a certain thing when I lack an understanding of the universe and the predictive methods with which to actualize any passionate dream I may have. I don't like the core of the irrelevant thoughts I think about what's good and bad or better or worse, and I don't like grappling with all of the merits and flaws of ideas I've taken in from people or come up with myself that seem simultaneously hypothetically-plausible and incomplete.
It also gets more and more disheartening to be totally captured by the power of my senses and the underlying of mystery of existence and then have it broken by the condition of wondering what's happening at work later, who thinks what, who's doing what in the world, how it affects me, how it affects everyone, etc.
Overall, I'm finding this growing tension between the reality of my emotions and the total mystery of existence. My ability to reconcile my emotions with what I experience keeps dissipating. The only thing I can hold onto is neophilia, but that's also pretty dubious. All of the ideas I read about justice, all of the life advice I've ever been given, and all of the ideas I've come up with, also fall into that same doubt.
But paradoxically, this whole state of doubt feels very certain and like it's leading somewhere good where my questions will be answered. The mundane things of life, like money, social status, etc. feel like distractions to finding this. And the weirdest thing about this it's something that isn't quite logical or emotional. I end up feeling it more and more as I dive deeper past paradoxes of my own nature and when I'm in meditative states. I think once I really rid myself of distractions and find a nice, quiet place where I can't be interrupted, I'll figure it out, or at least cover a good distance.
damnromulans
Klingons do not faint
That's awesome Vimana! I broke through and got to the 90% ego death point on Friday night, but since I immediately recognized what was happening and was in public standing I couldn't submit fully.
I bought some books on this topic that I'm excited about reading on vacation.
My "zone out" spot is the bath. I run the water way too hot and get pretty dissociated, to the point where it's just me existing in space.
I bought some books on this topic that I'm excited about reading on vacation.
My "zone out" spot is the bath. I run the water way too hot and get pretty dissociated, to the point where it's just me existing in space.
Vimana
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Was your ego death scary?
Mine wasn't complete either, but freaked me out. I felt like I was going to die or cease to exist and like an external force was tearing out my soul. I had to touch someone so I could be sure something existed. But afterwards, I felt a connection to the energy I hadn't had since. It was so powerful and I was denying it for hours. It changed my life.
I think using psychedelics for fun is like using a book to play catch. There's so much more one can experience.
Mine wasn't complete either, but freaked me out. I felt like I was going to die or cease to exist and like an external force was tearing out my soul. I had to touch someone so I could be sure something existed. But afterwards, I felt a connection to the energy I hadn't had since. It was so powerful and I was denying it for hours. It changed my life.
I think using psychedelics for fun is like using a book to play catch. There's so much more one can experience.
damnromulans
Klingons do not faint
No, it wasn't at all. It was 100% relief. Like "ahhhhhhhhhh nothing matters, now I can CELEBRATE AND HAVE FUN." It was the turning point from "difficult bordering on bad" to "ecstatic."
Should be worth noting the two substances involved are both notorious for being massively euphoric and not neutral/turbulent.
Should be worth noting the two substances involved are both notorious for being massively euphoric and not neutral/turbulent.
Vimana
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I achieved it from drugs, but I'm in the process of achieving it through meditation.
I don't think I achieved a complete ego death, though. My ego was mostly eradicated, but it was still kind of there in interplay with something. I felt a great unity, but it was hard to tell what was inside and outside my mind.
I feel aspects of that experience more and more in my daily life. There are moments where everything has this sentient energy, like the movement of things when I drop them, or currents of water. My brain frequently gets tired from it. I guess it uses up a lot of energy.
Meditation is fucking cool.
I don't think I achieved a complete ego death, though. My ego was mostly eradicated, but it was still kind of there in interplay with something. I felt a great unity, but it was hard to tell what was inside and outside my mind.
I feel aspects of that experience more and more in my daily life. There are moments where everything has this sentient energy, like the movement of things when I drop them, or currents of water. My brain frequently gets tired from it. I guess it uses up a lot of energy.
Meditation is fucking cool.
damnromulans
Klingons do not faint
Vimana
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Based on my experiences so far, I have some obstacles I got through that I haven't read about anywhere. Then again, I haven't read a whole lot on meditation.
1. People usually say not to think and to let thoughts come and go, but sometimes I find I have to use thought to address a thought and/or "pull out" a thought from its root to make it stop. If a certain type of thought frequently appears, sometimes relaxing and going back to the breath doesn't suffice to stop it, so I just have to inquire as to the origins of it and let my mind dig them up, then address them and move on.
For example, if I'm frequently analyzing a certain social situation, I just ask myself what the significance of it is and it usually comes up, or it comes up why it isn't significant and the breath becomes more interesting and the thought stops.
The key I've found for this process is to be patient and accepting. Sometimes the answer to a question about one of my frequent thought patterns comes attached to the question, and sometimes it takes a while to pop up. Sometimes I can't find an answer during the session and it pops up later.
Edit: Another thing to look out for is that the answer, or a question that automatically follows an answer may be too "quiet" to be totally understood. Obviously being frustrated takes you away from finding inner peace, so the thing to do is to just be blank because it will come back fuller and it's best not to expect a specific time or level of clarity for it.
2. What happens outside of meditation is just as important as what happens inside. Sometimes we need to think, and sometimes we don't. It's good to recognize when to think and not to think, which I'm not 100% certain on. It probably differs for different people. Trying to force mindfulness and clarity can be disastrous if the subconscious really needs to address something. In the best case, it can be pushed to the back where it will pop up later, but in the worst case, it will conflict with the attempt to be mindful.
In other words, going "oh no, I'm thinking!" can be bad because it prolongs or prevents addressing a thought that may be important.
3. Peace isn't the absence of interruption, but harmony. What happens happens, so don't expect a constant state. I used to stop because saliva got stuck in my throat, or because my cat would meow at me, but things eventually pass or are not nearly as bad as I felt like they were when I accept them.
4. Expect to feel more things about your own body that you didn't notice before. Let those come and go or address and accept them like thoughts.
5. When you are able to shut off thoughts and develop a greater clarity from getting a sense of which thought patterns are relevant and which ones are not, thoughts can become faster and more vivid. Also, when thinking less, thoughts develop a greater sense of novelty much in the same way things experienced through the senses are when they're not clouded by thoughts. This added novelty and clarity in the thoughts can make it easy to get lost in thoughts again. That goes back to finding when to think and not to think.
1. People usually say not to think and to let thoughts come and go, but sometimes I find I have to use thought to address a thought and/or "pull out" a thought from its root to make it stop. If a certain type of thought frequently appears, sometimes relaxing and going back to the breath doesn't suffice to stop it, so I just have to inquire as to the origins of it and let my mind dig them up, then address them and move on.
For example, if I'm frequently analyzing a certain social situation, I just ask myself what the significance of it is and it usually comes up, or it comes up why it isn't significant and the breath becomes more interesting and the thought stops.
The key I've found for this process is to be patient and accepting. Sometimes the answer to a question about one of my frequent thought patterns comes attached to the question, and sometimes it takes a while to pop up. Sometimes I can't find an answer during the session and it pops up later.
Edit: Another thing to look out for is that the answer, or a question that automatically follows an answer may be too "quiet" to be totally understood. Obviously being frustrated takes you away from finding inner peace, so the thing to do is to just be blank because it will come back fuller and it's best not to expect a specific time or level of clarity for it.
2. What happens outside of meditation is just as important as what happens inside. Sometimes we need to think, and sometimes we don't. It's good to recognize when to think and not to think, which I'm not 100% certain on. It probably differs for different people. Trying to force mindfulness and clarity can be disastrous if the subconscious really needs to address something. In the best case, it can be pushed to the back where it will pop up later, but in the worst case, it will conflict with the attempt to be mindful.
In other words, going "oh no, I'm thinking!" can be bad because it prolongs or prevents addressing a thought that may be important.
3. Peace isn't the absence of interruption, but harmony. What happens happens, so don't expect a constant state. I used to stop because saliva got stuck in my throat, or because my cat would meow at me, but things eventually pass or are not nearly as bad as I felt like they were when I accept them.
4. Expect to feel more things about your own body that you didn't notice before. Let those come and go or address and accept them like thoughts.
5. When you are able to shut off thoughts and develop a greater clarity from getting a sense of which thought patterns are relevant and which ones are not, thoughts can become faster and more vivid. Also, when thinking less, thoughts develop a greater sense of novelty much in the same way things experienced through the senses are when they're not clouded by thoughts. This added novelty and clarity in the thoughts can make it easy to get lost in thoughts again. That goes back to finding when to think and not to think.
Vimana
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- Mar 2, 2007
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After a couple really extended meditation sessions, the effects feel pretty permanent. It's insane. I never knew what my consciousness could do when it's grounded and unclouded. I managed to be able to hold a conversation with my parents and listen to music at the same time, and the music got to me emotionally much more than it does normally. It got to me so much I just started dancing spontaneously.
The only downside is that my brain gets tired easily since I'm better able to take a bunch of things in for extended periods of time, rather than drift along in a loop of pointless thoughts.
The only downside is that my brain gets tired easily since I'm better able to take a bunch of things in for extended periods of time, rather than drift along in a loop of pointless thoughts.
KafkaX
Mr. Self Destruct
damnromulans
Klingons do not faint
Funerary_Doom
My head is bloody, but unbowed.
Mom and sister left for Jamaica so I'm inviting people over and gonna do some of the shrooms I bought ages ago with some friends. I forgot I have to cook dinner for one of my brothers (one is special needs) so this is going to be interesting. Hope I don't die or burn down the place. But if you all don't hear from me you know what happened. Anyways, excited!
Funerary_Doom
My head is bloody, but unbowed.
Heh chickened out. Apparently it makes you throw up and wasn't in the mood for that. 
and plus I did eat not too long before ha.
and plus I did eat not too long before ha.Heh chickened out. Apparently it makes you throw up and wasn't in the mood for that.
It makes you throw up if you eat before taking them. Just take them on an empty stomach.
And there's really no reason to chicken out as long as you're in a comfortable environment. It's literally the safest drug out there besides Marijuana.
Just popped some Gabapentin. Apparently it doesn't do much, but others have said they felt pretty good while on it. Will see how it goes...
Funerary_Doom
My head is bloody, but unbowed.
@Vimana: Thanks for the suggestion! I never heard of that before. Would that "weaken" the trip, though? Since wouldn't be directly eating it?
@Nephilim: I know, it's just throwing up is literally the worse feeling for me, and figured a painful stomach ache would ruin any positives that the drug may give. I haven't eaten anything all day today, so i might try them out today. It's good to hear they are safe though.
Also how in the world did you get anti-seizure medication?!
@Nephilim: I know, it's just throwing up is literally the worse feeling for me, and figured a painful stomach ache would ruin any positives that the drug may give. I haven't eaten anything all day today, so i might try them out today. It's good to hear they are safe though.
Also how in the world did you get anti-seizure medication?!
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