The conditions of 'God'
- Thread starter FauxPerspicacity
- Start date
Caelum Adustum
Call me Ishmael
NAD
What A Horrible Night To Have A Curse
I think the first assumption with that line of thinking is that intelligence is involved. Strong faith may be the result of strong questioning, but a strong mind to urge the questioning must come first. I've seen those that not only do not question the doctrine they are told, but do not even comprehend that questioning is even possible. Then again, I've also seen intelligent people not even consider questioning their god, I suppose trying to be open to the opposition is more important than intelligence in this case.
Hell Mike
fuck melodic black metal
IOfTheStorm
Gogol Bordello
a strong mind always makes questions, while a weak mind just accepts what it considers to be "facts" (religious facts or scientific facts). The thing is that he who has a strong faith (in anything) is not afraid to make even more questions (and as time passes, more intelligent ones).
Black Winter Day
Member
You fuckers, I wasn't disagreeing with the fact that strong questioning creates stronger faith (if your questions find strong answers). However, I find that Christianity is a very Kindergarten religion that leads you from point A to point B without any spiritual journey/understanding in between. There is no spiritual growth, just blind, unquestioning faith. That said, I was a Christian about the first 15 years of my life until I leaned to think for myself and I have not "rejected" Christianity in a petty rebellious way, many of the tenets taught by Jesus coincide with my own philosophies (love for your neighbor, free will, etc), but as far as religion and faith go, it is a very shallow one that offers no real explanations or spiritual awareness (as taught by the Easterners and mystics). In short, the human consciouness suffocates under the burden of such single-sided faiths, leaving it nowhere to go but stagnate. Unless you are a monk, and then you just so happen to be a mystic that happens to wear a white cross.J. said:
IOfTheStorm
Gogol Bordello
How can you say that and agree that strong questioning makes strong faith?
When someone questions everything, thats his spiritual journey/understanding. As he finds the answers to the questions he has (forever), thats his spiritual growth.
Stagnation?
One who succeeds in practicing "Love Your Enemy" thing in his life, probably has made the absolute victory over every single spiritual stagnation. Its the greatest spiritual victory
Black Winter Day
Member
Spiritual growth means MUCH more than simply coming to terms with the tenets of your faith. And stong questioning OF ONE FAITH, without the awareness of other possibilities, IS stagnation. Siritual growth cannot be attained by the (non)advancement of faith; faith is a very Western concept, anyway -- what need to the Easterners have for faith?
"Love your enemy" is all fine and good, but it only extends spiritual awareness up to a certain point. One must evolve past simple humanistic endeavors... and include them at the same time.
"Love your enemy" is all fine and good, but it only extends spiritual awareness up to a certain point. One must evolve past simple humanistic endeavors... and include them at the same time.
Black Winter Day
Member
In short: I find most Western concepts of "faith", "God", "sin" and "suffering" to be very interesting ideas, but there is so much more the human consciousness has to offer that transcends and includes all. To be succinct: the mystics were not all madmen.
IOfTheStorm
Gogol Bordello
QUESTIONING also means examinining ALL possibilities. You question one faith by trying to prove it wrong, while you try to prove another to be right. There is not only one way to a strong faith. I have passed through that procedure.
I agree with the Western concept of faith you say. But Eastern people dont even practice their religion. Most Budhists just like what Budhism says, but they dont practice it. Real christians (not Church bastards, neither Cardinals in the Vatican) try to make their attitude perfect. Also do you think that all Muslims dont drink alcohol?
Right.
So when humanity first succeeds the "Love your Enemy" thing, we can talk about the possibility of something bigger (what can be greater than that?). Also "humanistic endeavors" is what humanity needs right now, to solve its problems. When everyone is a good boy, we can try expanding our minds/souls beyond that.
Black Winter Day
Member
Okay. But can anyone "prove" one faith, or should the journey be continual? And do any of the squabbling religions on Earth offer an absolute truth? Or are many of them just carriers to... something beyond normal human consciousness? I think that spiritual journies should never come to resting-places unless the consciousness has reached absolute attainment with the One Truth (what some call the "Original Face", what the Buddhists call "nothingness" and the Christians, in an indirect way, call "Jerusalem"). Everyone's life should be devoted to finding this center of the Kosmos. It's there. And I think that simple humans, through many stages of higher awareness, can reach it. I don't consider myself any one religion, but I think that this will ring true for many faiths.IOfTheStorm said:
I don't really care what Richard Gere and the Pope do.IOfTheStorm said:
Greater: deeper spiritual awareness. Realization that "we are all humans" is one step, much like "we are all part of nature" and (earlier in life) "I am of one country" (a step most Americans can't transcend) and "the world does not center on me" (realized in the early years of life, unless you are a womanIOfTheStorm said:
). Each fulcrum of consciousness advancement gets rid of more and more of the Ego. Once we get past the stage of human awareness (and, successively, the awareness of the natural world), one is in an existential stage... and is ready for more spiritual expansion. I guess you could say spiritual advancement for the individual... but what is the individual at this point?And yes, the world needs to learn to love one another. And it won't happen.
FORGIVE THEM, FOR THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THEY DO.
Hell Mike
fuck melodic black metal
NAD
What A Horrible Night To Have A Curse
J.
Old Fart
NAD
What A Horrible Night To Have A Curse
Black Winter Day
Member
Why, because you added that post to it?fotmbm said:
NAD: read "A Brief History of Everything" by Ken Wilber. I finished it today, and it is one of the few books that I can actually say has opened my mind to whole new paradigms. That is not to say Wilber is exactly correct with his integrated analyses, although I think he comes extremely close to mapping something that has existed throughout human history and beyond. In short: it has basically expanded my thinking and, thus, my life.
(As a side note, a certain mystifying and deeply spirtual album that I'm in love with but could never grasp its concept, suddenly 'clicked' with me after reading this. It was a wonderful feeling and one who knows me can probably guess what that album was.)
NAD
What A Horrible Night To Have A Curse
I do what I'm told. Although I picked up 11 books at a used book sale the other day so I'm a bit behind right now.
Something by Genesis probably.
Something by Genesis probably.
Black Winter Day
Member
"In the glare of a light
I see a strange kind of sight;
Of cages joined to from a star
Each person can't go very far;
All tied to their things
They are netted by their strings,
Free to flutter in memories of their wasted wings."
(I love those lines.)
I see a strange kind of sight;
Of cages joined to from a star
Each person can't go very far;
All tied to their things
They are netted by their strings,
Free to flutter in memories of their wasted wings."
(I love those lines.)
Not ALL Christians follow their religion blindly. There are probably many that delve into their religion and a lot of them take a look at other religions. However, others may stay stagnant from when they were a child. But, Catholicism, as I have heard about it, tends to oppose questioning.
