"The Elitist Religion"

TheBahggs

WAT
Feb 21, 2008
150
0
16
Waterford, MI
This is a metal forum, so I am fairly confident that many, or perhaps most of you are aware of the truth of Satanism. Satanists do not worship the devil, they are merely atheists with a highly secular view of the world. The term "Satanism" was actually applied to all atheists by the Catholic church in the middle ages and eventually evolved into the complex and vastly misunderstood philosophical tradition that it is today. Many people view the practices of Satanism as ritualistic, which is true to a certain extent. The "black mass" among other rituals were devised by the Church of Satan, but are not to be understood as religious practices, rather as anti-religious. The initial intent of Anton Szandor Lavey was not to found a new creed, but instead to mock an existing, oppressive one. Of course I am speaking of Christianity, the ancient enemy of Satanism. In fact, when closely surveyed, the Black mass bears an uncanny resemblance to that of the typical Christian mass, this is no mere coincidence. In fact, the Black mass as well as all principles of Satanism were originally nothing more than theatrical attempts to satirize Christianity and indeed all widespread theistic organizations. Although the common Satanist is portrayed as a sadomachocistic sociopaths, the modern Satanist could very easily blend in at a Christian youth rally. The moral code and belief system of Satanism is highly personal and frequently addresses topics such as respect, honor, loyalty, revenge, freedom, pleasure, and individuality. The key idealogy behind (Laveyan) Satanism can be dissected as follows:

- One must never feel ashamed of one's own anatomy, and should
in fact embrace it.
- If another individual harms you in any way, you have the
natural right to avenge yourself and bring about justice.
- Loyalty to one's family, friends, and community is among the
most important of any worldly virtue.
- Humans are only alive on this planet once, and must strive to
reach a state of personal satisfaction, true joy and absolute
justice.

I myself am not a Satanist, but an agnostic who agrees and follows a wide array of Satanic principles.

Discuss.
 
How is 'absolute justice' defined within a system that is completely based on selfish individualism?

touche

i find that while satanism has some interesting ideas in it (most of which are culled from 19th and 20th century atheists and philosophers) the whole satanic veneer is a gimmick and one would truly lead a shallow and untterly self-abosrbed existence with an unrealistically high perception of oneself if one actually put all of the satanic values into practice.
 
Of all religions & value systems, the 'true' satanism that you refer to probably comes closest to my own personal views.
That said, I'd never consider myself a satanist any more than than I would a christian or buddhist, because I reserve the right at any time to change my views & opinions on things.
A large part of my distaste for any religion is that in subscribing to it, & labelling oneself as a follower, you can unwittingly modify your behaviour to fit in with its ideals.
 
How is 'absolute justice' defined within a system that is completely based on selfish individualism?

the main reason it's called a religion: it makes no attempt to be valid or coherent, as a philosophy does.

that shit looks like nothing more than the product of a group of stoners who like fantasy shit coming up with a bunch of ideals and rules for members of their club to obey.

Objectivism isn't terribly different, except that it lacks all the silly little 'be loyal, be proud' cult/gang mantras of high school satanism.
 
- One must never feel ashamed of one's own anatomy, and should
in fact embrace it.
- If another individual harms you in any way, you have the
natural right to avenge yourself and bring about justice.
- Loyalty to one's family, friends, and community is among the
most important of any worldly virtue.
- Humans are only alive on this planet once, and must strive to
reach a state of personal satisfaction, true joy and absolute
justice.

But do satanists have a god? Because if not you're just describing atheism really...
 
But do satanists have a god? Because if not you're just describing atheism really...

This is how I always saw it as well... which makes me believe, as others have pointed out, that labelling it satanism just gives it more exclusivity (Kinda like a treehouse club. :cool: )& familiar imagery to draw from.
The ideals themselves aren't entirely without merit... just the packaging smacks of effort.
 
I have always had much respect for Satanism, and have looked into the occult on numerous occasions but never went so far as to dabble. If nothing else, they are good principles by which to live.

My favourite verse in LaVey's Satanic Bible is the one where wrath is returned with compound interest :heh:
 
It is true that if you apply ALL Satanic principles and ideologies you are doomed to a lonely, egotistical existence, but that is not any different than any other religion. If you apply EVERY teaching of Christianity or Judaism, you are condemned to a life without purpose, merely following a series of rules and procedures. Like any religion, the philosophy of Satanism is merely a guide to living one's life. The only real contrast between Satanism and other creeds is that Satanism is realistic and actually clicks with rational minds and does not require "faith" only choice.
 
free_Varg do you agree with Varg Vikernes' opinion of Anton LeVay?

Karl: What is your opinion of Anton LeVay and his followers? Count: Anton LeVay is an idiot and the things he represents have nothing to do with Satanism. He represents self-benefit and egoism in the guise of Satanism. Aleister Crowley was also a fake. He was so fixated on sex that he lost the real magic.
http://www.burzum.com/burzum/library/interviews/death.html

That was from a disputed article, but Varg also said much the same thing in a piece he wrote himself, discussing how warped the book "Lords of Chaos" is.
 
But do satanists have a god? Because if not you're just describing atheism really...

atheism is not a religion
it's not a set of beliefs
it has no doctrine

atheism, depending on the definition, is either 'the lack of one belief', or 'one belief', and nothing more.

Satanism is just
'take off your shoes at the door'
'they who eat another's cooking do the dishes for the cook'
'if you puke on the toilet wash it off'
etc.

sure, it's atheistic, but it's not entailed by atheism, it's just clubhouse rules.
 
It is true that if you apply ALL Satanic principles and ideologies you are doomed to a lonely, egotistical existence, but that is not any different than any other religion. If you apply EVERY teaching of Christianity or Judaism, you are condemned to a life without purpose, merely following a series of rules and procedures. Like any religion, the philosophy of Satanism is merely a guide to living one's life. The only real contrast between Satanism and other creeds is that Satanism is realistic and actually clicks with rational minds and does not require "faith" only choice.

i disagree... a religion like christianity is not merely a guide to living one's life... it entails believing that certain things are in fact real (i.e. the trinity, the resurrection of christ, etc.). i think the real difference between other religions and satanism is that other religions say "believe this it is true" while satanism says "hey life is meaningless, enjoy yourself and let's dress up in black capes and wear pentegrams and piss people off!" :lol:
 
It isn't selfish if you don't believe in any higher form of judgment (or your higher form of judgment encourages you to act in your own self-interest).

the words as I use them would have me disagree.

It is 'selfish', but it's not, as you allude to, 'idolatry'---it's not a selfishness which neglects the most important thing, and treats something inferior as though it were that, rather, in this instance, it is proper to be selfish; oneself is the most important thing.
 
It isn't selfish if you don't believe in any higher form of judgment (or your higher form of judgment encourages you to act in your own self-interest).

I thought the query was more about the usage of 'absolute justice' - to speak of such and at the same time refer to yourself as all that should be considered seems a little odd, and at least requiring of explanation, imho.

Also, I think, as Seditious mentioned, that when you say 'it isn't selfish' you really mean 'it isn't *wrong*' if you don't believe in any higher form of judgement. I would suggest that it would not be wrong to the individual, but would of course still be wrong to others. To take the position that nothing is wrong if someone believes it is 'right' is a little too extremely relativist for me :)
 
atheism is not a religion
it's not a set of beliefs
it has no doctrine

atheism, depending on the definition, is either 'the lack of one belief', or 'one belief', and nothing more.

K. WTF?

Satanism is just
'take off your shoes at the door'
'they who eat another's cooking do the dishes for the cook'
'if you puke on the toilet wash it off'
etc.

sure, it's atheistic, but it's not entailed by atheism, it's just clubhouse rules.

I didn't ask if Satanists wash their own dishes. I wanted to know if they actually had a God, or if they take the Christian image of Satan as their God. Because that would be crazy :cool:

So it's just atheism basically right?
 
I'm sorry, I'm a little confused.

Can anyone provide a reliable link to what true satanism actually is because no one has bothered explaining the reasons why it is counted as a religion?

Hello wikipedia
 
In LaVeyan Satanism the Satanist does not worship Satan in the theistic sense, but plays the role of an adversary to spiritual creeds, espousing hedonism, Randian Objectivism, Nietzschean philosophy and atheism

I'm no LaVeyan satanist but many of the ideologies included in this "religion" are similar to my own atheistic ideologies. Thats because it's an honest (if not selfish and introverted, as someone has mentioned) way to live.