The Most Hated Family in America

[spioraid]

I'm coming from more of a Calvinistic perspective, but I still rely on the argument of the existentialist. That argument basically states that wether or not I can fully explain how and why this just happened, I cannot deny it's reality. It happened to me, through me and has changed me irrevocably. Unfortunately there is no outward immediate evidence that a non-Christian can claim as having authority when you use that argument by itself. The real test of a Christian is by their works, the evidence of salvation. Without going into the issue works salvation...it's not works that save, the works are simply evidence.

Santa Claus cannot impinge on how I live or change me definitely. I can alter the course of my life to fit a belief that Santa Claus is real, but it's all done by me. Salvation is a supernatural work from God, hence the difficulty in attempting to explain it if you haven't experienced it yourself.

But I digress, the issue here is homosexuality. I've stated that I see it as wrong, but not "more" wrong that anything else. I would not treat a homosexual any different than a liar, thief or someone that talks at movies. I have completely negated the outward effectual calling towards others if I don't treat them the same, as well as show evidence of the lack of the work in God in me.

 

[26]

I'm coming from more of a Calvinistic perspective, but I still rely on the argument of the existentialist. That argument basically states that wether or not I can fully explain how and why this just happened, I cannot deny it's reality. It happened to me, through me and has changed me irrevocably. Unfortunately there is no outward immediate evidence that a non-Christian can claim as having authority when you use that argument by itself. The real test of a Christian is by their works, the evidence of salvation. Without going into the issue works salvation...it's not works that save, the works are simply evidence.

although your first sentence sounds a bit as if indoctrination is fighting intellect, i can even agree in the solipsistic, constructivist elements of your perception. it is a nicely laid auto immun explanation for christianity also.
i only don´t understand the necessity to stick with this creativism if the actual aim is simply becoming a spiritual developed person.

 

[spioraid]

As pointed out before, if there is a discrepancy within Christian anywhere from point A to Z, it all falls apart. It's a lot more than just becoming more spiritually developed. If you take the principles and basics of Christianity and either reject aspects of it or bring foreign elements in, you're welcoming post-modernism into monotheistic/sola scriptura theology which does nothing for either. One says, "I am the way, the truth, the life, no comes to the Father except through me." and the other says, "There are many ways to enlightenment and heaven."

It's interesting you mentioned the existentialist argument as auto immune, because the people I know who have left Christianity on the basis of it not adhering to common logic or being so beyond human comprehension it's useless to try, have never had a claim to that argument. It's always been them being a Christian due to heritage, family or location. I know a person once who said (paraphrased), "I understand everything from point A to point B. I just can't believe in it, I don't have the faith." Interesting paradox, isn't it?

 

[26]

As pointed out before, if there is a discrepancy within Christian anywhere from point A to Z, it all falls apart. It's a lot more than just becoming more spiritually developed. If you take the principles and basics of Christianity and either reject aspects of it or bring foreign elements in, you're welcoming post-modernism into monotheistic/sola scriptura theology which does nothing for either. One says, "I am the way, the truth, the life, no comes to the Father except through me." and the other says, "There are many ways to enlightenment and heaven."

This again sounds like indoctrination, no reason to stick with such an imperfect model. I mean the exact opposite. Christianity is basically stolen ideas (Jesus/Osiris) etc. The deeper meanings of the world religons are essentially congruent.
Therefore: yes, there are many ways to enlightenment.
Free yourself

 

[devouredremains]

Did anyone else notice how similar they all look? I don't think there is much genetic diversity left within that family. Also, did anyone notice that there was not a single non caucasian member of that church.

I think there is more to the story of these people then anyone knows.

 

[26]

Did anyone else notice how similar they all look? I don't think there is much genetic diversity left within that family. Also, did anyone notice that there was not a single non caucasian member of that church.

I think there is more to the story of these people then anyone knows.

yes, from a psychological point of view i also thought if their crusade against homosexuality is compensation for incest.

 

[SocialNumb]

Oh thats the 1st thing I noticed and assumed before ever seeing them. Incest. They have about 70 odd members or so and something like 80% of them are family.

Obviously "Grandpa" started something he wants done, whether or not he is around to see it.

 

[devouredremains]

yes, from a psychological point of view i also thought if their crusade against homosexuality is compensation for incest.

Oh thats the 1st thing I noticed and assumed before ever seeing them. Incest. They have about 70 odd members or so and something like 80% of them are family.

Obviously "Grandpa" started something he wants done, whether or not he is around to see it.

Certainly. I also think it's strange how the mother is so concerned about "fornication" yet she has a shit ton of kids. Having that many kids would take some serious fornicating. I watched every video and I may have missed something but where and who is the father of those kids? And who would "fornicate" that nasty fucking witch anyway?

We all know how much sexual abuse stems from Christianity so who knows what happens to those kids behind closed doors. In my country it was the Native Indians being sexually abused in residential schools by the priests while being beaten, shamed and stripped of their heritage.

This westboro shit seems pretty suspect to me.

 

[iamandy]

Their kid is called Gaybriel! Oh the irony.

i'm pretty sure he did a second one of this.. or there was another english bloke did the samething and found out that one of Shirley's children was an actual bastard. think its the oldest one, i'm not 100% sure

 

[Glenn Fricker]

So in that moment when Adam sinned, he fell short of the standard of God's perfection and nature followed because it was entrusted to him.

So, what you're saying is that certain animals went gay because Adam & Eve were talked into eating a certain fruit by a snake? No offense, but I'm gonna have to call "bullshit!" on that one! Ockham's razor suggests Evolution as the answer here, not a convoluted theological explanation.



However, I know for a fact you won't recede your argument anytime soon. As someone who was in exactly the same position you are in 20 years ago, (your age, sir?) It's very hard to let go of faith, especially when it's reinforced by the family. In the end, we all have to decide for ourselves what is 'real' when it comes to faith. Personally, my faith in God went out the window on 911, and every excuse I've heard from religious types on the subject since that day has been woefully inadequate.
Maybe you'll get to the stage in your life when the phrase "God works in mysterious ways" just isn't good enough anymore.
In the meantime, it's a good debate. I'd certainly rather debate with you than that asshole from the documentary.

 

[Glenn Fricker]

Oh thats the 1st thing I noticed and assumed before ever seeing them. Incest. They have about 70 odd members or so and something like 80% of them are family.

Obviously "Grandpa" started something he wants done, whether or not he is around to see it.

Notice how "gramps" clammed up when asked how many children he has? Or the older girls throw on the plastic smiles when asked about why they aren't getting married or dating?

 

[spioraid]

I will voluntarily state I've done little to no research on gay animals. I don't have anything more to offer in that respect!

I am 22. Faith for me obviously started as something family related, but around 15 I started posing some serious questions about Christianity and God. I was able to learn and understand the answers that were valid and that I could see proper application for, I was never really given "excuses". To be honest I sincerely doubt I would be a Christian today if I had been fed the same excuses, lies and cop-outs that it sounds like you were subjected to. Obviously that's not to say that anyone who isn't a Christian is dumb and un-educated, I just find myself unfortunately in a very small number of Christians that can actually back up what I believe.

I would much rather debate with you fellows than many others as well! Adversarius Oblige.

 

[26]

... fed the same excuses, lies and cop-outs that it sounds like you were subjected to.

that`s a typical christian straw that won`t hold up against your own ability to think, analyze and judge (unless you have masochistic tendencies).

i can understand the wish for a nice warm and save ideology though
but it`s not so easy....

 

[SocialNumb]

Notice how "gramps" clammed up when asked how many children he has? Or the older girls throw on the plastic smiles when asked about why they aren't getting married or dating?

I'm guessing either "Gramps" has no idea or he is hiding something. Probably the first. Or both?

Those girls are dying to get laid, rather than fondled by grandpa. uke:

 

[SuperD]

When it comes to Gramps I think Shakespeare said it best...."Me thinks thou dost protest too much..."

Translated into Canadian..."He who smelt it dealt it!"

One BAD dude I think.