The News Thread

[Einherjar86]

Ugh, these past few pages. To reiterate, when people talk about racism, it's a matter of socioeconomics. Whether some black people hate white people or white people hate black people is honestly not all that relevant to the way society functions.

I think it's obvious that we agree; but I'll just say that, from my own experience and evidence from this thread, when people talk about racism it's clear that most of them do mean whether some black people hate white people, or white people hate black people. That's the problem; most people simply don't understand what racism really is, or how it functions.

EDIT: furthermore, when Mort et al say that white people can't be victims of racism, there is some truth to that comment. If racism is an institutional effect of historical conditions, then it's obvious that whites have been the perpetrators of these conditions - not the other way around.

 

[The Ozzman]

ITT we learn that Mort is still full of himself.

On another note I would have joined the military of I hadn't been fortunate enough to go to college.

 

[rms]

On a side note, the "American Dream" has been complete bullshit since about the 1920s, and anyone who thinks otherwise is just dumb. Just because some people win the lottery doesn't mean this is a fair and just game.

Weird, my argument was that the military is not a lottery at all.

 

[Matt]

On another note I would have joined the military of I hadn't been fortunate enough to go to college.

That's always been my backup plan in case none of my actual career desires pan out. I did ROTC for 2 years in college but didn't feel like making that kind of commitment. At times I regret not doing it.

 

[Mort Divine]

ITT we learn that Mort is still full of himself.

hahaok

 

[Dak]

I will readily agree that there has long been, and continues to be in many places and at many levels, systemic racism. But pretty much every argument offered/article posted to that effect entirely misses the mark. One might say that it doesn't matter if the knowledge that racism isn't "solved" is at least correct, but it does matter. It matters because proffered solutions are not solutions at the least, and would perpetuate the problem or grow it at the worst. Various common complaints are absurd/pure whining instead of complaining about the real issues, undermining respectability. Nothing hurts a good position worse than a terrible defense.

 

[Tonka Time]

At the end of the day the people at the top of the shit pile are laughing all the way to the bank while everyone bickers about race, sexuality, etc.

 

[Dak]

At the end of the day the people at the top of the shit pile are laughing all the way to the bank while everyone bickers about race, sexuality, etc.

This.

 

[The Ozzman]

http://conservativetribune.com/white-teen-shot-by-black-cop/

 

[Mort Divine]

http://conservativetribune.com/white-teen-shot-by-black-cop/

And conservatives accuse progressives of race baiting.

 

[Summerian]

This thread turned into: Pity all poor white men, because black people are racist too. - absurd.
People who have slave owners in the family tree shouldn't bitch about being victims of racists. - spinning*

Police should have the hardest selection in the police Academy. No triggerhappy, racist, psychos.
If a police shoot anyone dead, they have to go - automatic termination. Also - cops shouldn't have guns. Not sure how that's going to work in USA before the 2.nd goes byebye (and then there's all the drugs).

And if someone is advancing on a cop they get it in the head? Why not the leg?
Shoot someone in the knee and they on the ground in no time.

*-In public relations, spin is a form of propaganda, achieved through providing an interpretation of an event or campaign to persuade public opinion in favor or against a certain organization or public figure. While traditional public relations may also rely on creative presentation of the facts, "spin" often implies disingenuous, deceptive and/or highly manipulative tactics.[1]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spin_(public_relations)

 

[viewerfromnihil]

People who have slave owners in the family tree shouldn't bitch about being victims of racists.

Most white Americans are not descendents of former slave owning plantation families.

 

[Dak]

And conservatives accuse progressives of race baiting.

I think the point is that there hasn't been any. In fact, it can be argued that the primary reason here is that the "just doing his jerb" mentality whites are accused of having towards the police (in Ferguson and other similar scenarios) applies regardless of race. Let me guess, that is the worst kind of racism? Probably something about cishethomotransraceraceciskin hidden in there also.

Most white Americans are not descendents of former slave owning plantation families.

Not only that, the odds that everyone in the world has someone/somewhere up the tree that was a slave, and someone/somewhere up the tree that had/a slave(s), are probably approaching 100%.

Fortunately we have solid contributors like Summerian to inform us about this crazy new concept called spin.

 

[Summerian]

Most white Americans are not descendents of former slave owning plantation families.

Not only that, the odds that everyone in the world has someone/somewhere up the tree that was a slave, and someone/somewhere up the tree that had/a slave(s), are probably approaching 100%.

Fortunately we have solid contributors like Summerian to inform us about this crazy new concept called spin.

So now it's all about poor white people being misrepresented?
Or how we should all be cool with slavery because everyone in the world has someone/somewhere up the tree that had a slave(s)?
And the derailing of this thread is alright if it's the right people doing the spinning?

And don't think I didn't notice how my And if someone is advancing on a cop they get it in the head? Why not the leg?
Shoot someone in the knee and they on the ground in no time. bit got edited out.
Now why is that?

http://www.derailingfordummies.com/derail-using-distraction/

 

[Dak]

Yes, Summerian, everyone in this thread is okay with police brutality and slavery.

 

[Einherjar86]

1. It doesn't matter whether or not whites are descended from slave-owners. What matters is history: slavery in the West has been an institution dominated by white Euro-Americans, and slaves have been predominantly of African descent. Racism is a historically conditioned socioeconomic institution - a material factor, not a psychological disposition. The psychological disposition (i.e. that blacks are inferior to whites) goes hand in hand with slavery, but remains inseparable from it.

2. If racism is constituted by a systematic and not an individualistic phenomenon, then it would be fallacious to reduce the problem of police brutality against blacks to the individual police officers themselves. There is a statistical tendency for people of a certain aggressive mentality to become police officers, but we also must recognize that police officers are asked to perform an impossible job: protect us while protecting themselves, and refrain from potentially deadly force despite diffusing volatile situations.

And when all is said and done, we praise the officers who kill those we deem to be evil misanthropes, and condemn those who accidentally shoot an unarmed teen.

The problem is more complicated than the actions of a single police officer.

 

[Draehl]

Holding the 90% of historically poor as dirt whites accountable for the actions of the few ruling elite is somehow okay? Institutionalized or not you're forgetting that the people in power create these institutions regardless of what the uneducated poor whites have to say about it. In all reality I'm sure most didn't have an opinion either way on the issue, being more concerned with their own survival and I believe that has continued into modern times. Is there some perception that all whites are a part of some political machine/conspiracy? When in reality they just don't want to be involved and fucks given = zero. Hey, make the argument of white privilege for having the luxury to only be concerned on an individual level (vs. a community level) but I really think a lot of the socioeconomic group vs. group dynamics/theories just come down to individual people looking out for themselves. They don't care about larger race/class groups they "belong" to, or other groups they aren't a part of. There's a large difference between being accountable and simply not wanting to be involved.

 

[viewerfromnihil]

1. It doesn't matter whether or not whites are descended from slave-owners. What matters is history: slavery in the West has been an institution dominated by white Euro-Americans, and slaves have been predominantly of African descent. Racism is a historically conditioned socioeconomic institution - a material factor, not a psychological disposition. The psychological disposition (i.e. that blacks are inferior to whites) goes hand in hand with slavery, but remains inseparable from it.

2. If racism is constituted by a systematic and not an individualistic phenomenon, then it would be fallacious to reduce the problem of police brutality against blacks to the individual police officers themselves. There is a statistical tendency for people of a certain aggressive mentality to become police officers, but we also must recognize that police officers are asked to perform an impossible job: protect us while protecting themselves, and refrain from potentially deadly force despite diffusing volatile situations.

And when all is said and done, we praise the officers who kill those we deem to be evil misanthropes, and condemn those who accidentally shoot an unarmed teen.

The problem is more complicated than the actions of a single police officer.

Agreed, my point was directed only at Summerian.

 

[Jimmy... Dead.]

Meanwhile there have been hundreds of black on black murders and I don't see one protest

 

[Einherjar86]

Agreed, my point was directed only at Summerian.

So was mine. The idea that most whites in America today are descended from slave masters is a common misconception.