The News Thread

[Tonka Time]

Errbody knows dat da black ice ain't no mo dangerous den da white ice. It wus da white ice dat put da black ice dare in da furst place!

On another topic, there isn't any other issues on the news to fucking talk about?

 

[Einherjar86]

But we all know, we allllll fuckin' know when a cop tells you you're under arrest you don't yell and scream about it and you don't flail your arms around like a dumbass while hes looking to put cuffs on you.

We alllllll know??? No, you're wrong here; I'm really sorry, but this is your trenchant inability to really think critically about the situation.

It confounds me that people still think that complying with the police is always a viable option. It's inconsiderate and idiotic to call Garner a "dumbass." He begged the fucking cops to "leave him alone," to "stop"; he was begging those assholes. I won't agree with you that it's perfectly reasonable to assume that it's easy for everyone to simply comply during an arrest. That's a moronic assumption.

I'm not saying that resisting arrest will necessarily yield better results; but sometimes it is impossible for certain individuals - particularly black males - to conceive of compliance as a viable and mature possibility.

Technically the guy died from a severe asthma attack. He wasn't literally choked to death.

The coroner ruled that he died because of intense pressure put on his chest and neck. Stop trying to blame the fucking victim. You're not helping your case.

 

[Jimmy... Dead.]

We alllllll know??? No, you're wrong here; I'm really sorry, but this is your trenchant inability to really think critically about the situation.

It confounds me that people still think that complying with the police is always a viable option. It's inconsiderate and idiotic to call Garner a "dumbass." He begged the fucking cops to "leave him alone," to "stop"; he was begging those assholes. I won't agree with you that it's perfectly reasonable to assume that it's easy for everyone to simply comply during an arrest. That's a moronic assumption.

He still has to comply with the order. You can't just say "stop" or "leave me alone" when a cop tells you you're under arrest. He has to comply. That’s the law. And the officer has the right to use force to put him in handcuffs.

What are they supposed to do at that point? They’re supposed to let him go? Get up and say Hey, dude, you know what? We’re gonna let you go. You can go break the law all you want, and we’ll go about our business. That’s not the way it works.

The coroner ruled that he died because of intense pressure put on his chest and neck. Stop trying to blame the fucking victim. You're not helping your case.

Yeah that was definitely a factor and the fact that he was 350 pounds with major health issues.

 

[Einherjar86]

He still has to comply with the order. You can't just say "stop" or "leave me alone" when a cop tells you you're under arrest. He has to comply. That’s the law. And the officer has the right to use force to put him in handcuffs.

What are they supposed to do at that point? They’re supposed to let him go? Get up and say Hey, dude, you know what? We’re gonna let you go. You can go break the law all you want, and we’ll go about our business. That’s not the way it works.

Jesus fucking Christ; no, he shouldn't expect to just be let go. I'm saying there is no way out. Compliance looks just as hopeless as trying to fucking stand up for himself and facing death because of it. I'm not suggesting that resisting would yield any better results, as I already fucking said. I'm saying that there is no way out for black people targeted by institutional law enforcement.

And I'm sorry again, but you really are having a hard time getting this.

"That's the law" is not a fucking excuse, and it is not an axiomatic that we should accept without question; officers do not have the unchallenged right to use lethal force. That is a dumbass ideological fantasy that you're buying into.

 

[Dak]

It's inconsiderate and idiotic to call Garner a "dumbass." He begged the fucking cops to "leave him alone,"

Considering that he was in the process of breaking the law and telling law enforcement to leave him alone to continue breaking the law, that is definitely a good reason to call him dumb.

Edit: And recognizing this in no way justifies or excuses the law itself, the state thugs, or the chokeslampile "technique".

 

[Einherjar86]

Because the law he was breaking is just and sacrosanct? Stop participating in this stupid line of thought, Dak. Stop appealing to the law as though it is a standard by which we can judge the actions of others as "dumb."

 

[Dak]

Read my edit. It has nothing to do with the justicity of the law or lack thereof.

 

[Einherjar86]

It does, though. You just don't want to believe that it does. It's much easier to assess the situation if it can be judged purely on the basis of what the law dictates will happen. Perpetuating beliefs that the victim could only be dumb to resist arrest is, quite honestly, an aspect of racist ideology.

 

[Dak]

You are completely wrong on this. I won't go all into my opinions on traffic laws, but let's just say I think speeding tickets and tickets for rolling stops are "fascist". I was pulled for speeding as a teen in a blatent speed trap. It was bullshit, but does the cop care? Fuck no he doesn't. So it would have been dumb for me to start asking him to just let me keep speeding. Probably would have gotten chokeslammed also.

 

[Einherjar86]

You're a white person; not a black person, David.

I see your position as symptomatic of the very issue we're discussing. I see you as completely deluded about the position of most blacks in this country. You likely see my position as equally deluded. I don't think there's anything to be gained from further discussion.

 

[Summerian]

Avoid being arrested??! Silly civilians, rights are for the gubmint.

Edit:



Poor man didn't know you can't undercut a cartel.

Sells unlicensed cigarettes - dies of respiratory failure.

---
It's not just US cops though, same all over.

 

[Dak]

Oh I agree that generally speaking, blacks are in worse position, particularly when dealing with (white) police. But that rather makes my point. If I, as a white person, know that the cop would still react rather poorly to being told to "leave me alone", why in the hell would someone with even lesser social standing in the eye of the cop think that it would be a good idea? Frustration? Well, I could understand frustration if the guy wasn't breaking the law/hadn't been breaking the law, and was being profiled. You can't blame discrimination and profiling when you did in fact do something to warrant the attention (even if you would otherwise be profiled in a discriminating manner).

And I'm not saying "doing something to warrant attention" in some kind of objectively just sense. I mean purely that law enforcement looks to find laws needing enforcement. You don't "speed in red sports cars past cops".

I like how this case and the Ferguson thing are getting protests and riots but not this, this, or this. Etc. Any one of these cases is much more deserving. But what is being protested isn't state brutality and overreach, which is why I don't have much sympathy with those protesting.

 

[Einherjar86]

It's all about exposure.

And police brutality goes hand in hand with racial discrimination and targeting; I cannot begin to understand why you choose to ignore the racial aspect.

EDIT: I'm more than happy to take this over into the Batshit thread, but I want to talk about the blanket criticism: "No one, regardless of race, gender, sex, age, etc. should be subject to reckless and excessive state violence."

I agree completely with this statement; but I think it's important to see how there is more to the issue than that. In other words, simply solving the problem posed by that statement does not address the racist implications of state violence. To put it even more bluntly: addressing the issue purely on the basis of state violence solves the problem for the dominant racial class (i.e. whites) and no one else.

The unspoken and unrealized element of the deracialized comment above (that "no one, regardless of race, should be subject to state violence") is that its very phrasing is actually racially motivated.

 

[Einherjar86]

Sony shelved The Interview. Everyone in the world seems to be lamenting the decision.

I'm somewhat entertained by the simple fact of a James Franco film getting booted from the cinemas. Fuck that guy.

 

[tagradh]

The part that isn't entertaining is that they think North Korea is behind it (though it may as well be any other group of fanatic, extremist wankers) and yet they've managed to effectively censor what is shown in cinemas the West (or in America, at least).

I'd rather the cinemas were free to show shitty films, just as people are free to not go and see them, than have people placate a bunch of fuckheads like this.

 

[Einherjar86]

The cinemas were free to show the film. This entire incident is a series of private industry decisions.

Several cinema chains voted not to show the film, which then led to Sony shelving it. The government isn't stepping in and saying "Don't show this film." There could be unofficial hints taking place backstage (pun totally intended - all the world's a stage), but this isn't government censorship.

 

[Dak]

I read somewhere that the shelving of the movie may turn out to be little more than a publicity stunt to drive higher ticket sales later.

 

[rms]

Was that from Glenn Beck?

 

[Dak]

It was somewhere in my Digg feeds, and GB isn't in my Digg feed, so I don't think so.

 

[rms]

It was a joke mr serious