The News Thread

[CiG]

You might as well put up a sign that says "mens toilet" on the women's toilet since you're all saying you can just literally be a man in a wifebeater with hairy shoulders and a pornstache and not have your gender questioned or entry denied, since passing is irrelevant apparently...

Fucking mental.

 

[CiG]

Btw I'm a woman, prove me wrong.

 

[Krow]

You might as well put up a sign that says "mens toilet" on the women's toilet since you're all saying you can just literally be a man in a wifebeater with hairy shoulders and a pornstache and not have your gender questioned or entry denied, since passing is irrelevant apparently...

Fucking mental.

This is the toilet earth we currently live on.

 

[Einherjar86]

You might as well put up a sign that says "mens toilet" on the women's toilet since you're all saying you can just literally be a man in a wifebeater with hairy shoulders and a pornstache and not have your gender questioned or entry denied, since passing is irrelevant apparently...

Fucking mental.

Come on dude, you have to see the distinction here.

What you're suggesting is absurd because no one is saying it's okay for men to walk into a women's bathroom and gawk. And if they do, then that's sufficient reason to call the cops. The scenario you're imagining has nothing to do with the issue at hand, and is in fact an entirely different category (that of criminal offenders, not transgender people).

 

[CiG]

If you say that passing is irrelevant, you're saying there is no bottom-line standard for who can use gendered toilets. Surely you understand my point here?

Can I walk in and use a women's toilet?

Edit: Seriously, if passing is irrelevant for trans people to use gendered toilets, tell me why I can't just start using the women's toilets.

 

[Einherjar86]

There isn't any reason why you can't. If your intention is only to use the bathroom and not gawk or sexually assault someone, then what's the problem?

Honestly, if the issue is simply being comfortable in a bathroom, then that's an entirely different discussion. There's no need to demonize trans people as potential sexual predators if we're going to start using ourselves as examples.

 

[Carpe Mortem]

I think CIG's point centers around distinction between an actual trans and a man or woman who still appears in every sense of the word to be their birth gender. And both women and men would definitely be uncomfortable with someone who clearly has none of their characteristics using an originally characteristically-driven restroom. Plus, to limit sexual predators of the pooper as only the opposite gender of its usual occupants is dumb so I'm gonna skip right over that, it's an irrelevant point here. A man who looks like a man could go in the men's room and rape a man who also looks like a man, or who looks like a woman. Irrelevant.

Idgaf if a man uses the women's restroom because I have used many unisex restrooms, but some people aren't comfortable with it. I don't think society as a whole can be expected to just 'be comfortable' because there's a special snowflake who won't go balls deep into change and prides themselves on being ambiguously both genders.

A truly unisex, third restroom option is a good idea. But that's expensive, and trans run an entire spectrum of individuality and levels of gender, so they should use the gendered whatever restroom they have the piss organs for.

 

[Carpe Mortem]

That probably sounded convoluted. I don't know enough synonyms.

 

[Einherjar86]

I understand the distinction CIG is making, I just don't think it's a legitimate concern. If sexual assault is the issue here, then focusing solely on trans-people is a red herring. If being comfortable in a restroom is the issue, then a conversation could be had about the social history of public restrooms and the reasons behind discomfort.

To take CIG as an example, since he offered himself, I realize that plenty of women would probably feel uncomfortable if he were to use their bathroom. Let's imagine the possibilities behind his motivation:

-he's a legit transgender person who just needs to use the bathroom, goes in, does his business, and leaves. There's absolutely no harm here, and any discomfort derives from either socialization or a fear of assault.

-he's a creep who wants to attack or gawk at women, in which case posting a "no transgender allowed" sign (or rather, no one of opposite biological sex) won't stop him. He would be arrested for doing this anywhere, and doing it in a bathroom is actually increasingly risky because there's a greater chance that he could be discovered and cornered.

-he isn't transgender and isn't a criminal, but just wants to ruffle feathers; in which case, again, transgender people aren't the problem--the problem is people who think that transgender people are the problem and they want to make a point, but don't realize they're actually not making a point at all.

Unless CIG intends some kind of sexual harm, or intends to poke his head underneath stalls, what we have is a zone of discomfort reminiscent of the discomfort that white people felt when bathrooms were desegregated.

 

[Carpe Mortem]

I think discomfort is the primary concern. And I think it would be great if people would all use unisex bathrooms. It would eliminate a lot of problems, even so far as the little boy tagging along with his mother that people bitch about.

But, I don't think the way to solve that discomfort is an open door policy for every gendered bathroom. Nor do I think its reminiscent of segregation. I don't know the figure exactly, but a large percentage of people identify by one ironclad gender and have gone dutifully and doodyfully(giggity) their whole lives to the same labeled restroom. Women can shit their brains out without worrying some cute guy will hear and smell it, and men can whip out their toothpick dicks at urinals without concern that women might laugh at it. It's this safe space for people. While I agree that transmen and transwomen deserve the same safe space, the majority has to rule, and unless there's a third restroom, they should go where they'll ruffle the least feathers. To do otherwise is selfish.

 

[Mort Divine]

Who the fuck cares if it is selfish? What do they owe to a society that would rather erase their very existence than even so much as view them as human?

Why is it that the feelings of people who spend their entire lives having their existence validated through social and cultural norms/institutions are the ones we are worried about?

 

[CiG]

Who the fuck cares if it is selfish? What do they owe to a society that would rather erase their very existence than even so much as view them as human?

Why is it that the feelings of people who spend their entire lives having their existence validated through social and cultural norms/institutions are the ones we are worried about?

Why is a man telling all women that their comfort is irrelevant? Check your privilege white male.

Honestly, if the issue is simply being comfortable in a bathroom, then that's an entirely different discussion. There's no need to demonize trans people as potential sexual predators if we're going to start using ourselves as examples.

I'm not demonising anybody. I'm saying if gendered toilets have no standards for who can use them, why even have them to begin with? If I as a grizzly bearded dude can use a women's toilet because passing is irrelevant, what the hell is the use of them to begin with?

I understand the distinction CIG is making, I just don't think it's a legitimate concern. If sexual assault is the issue here, then focusing solely on trans-people is a red herring. If being comfortable in a restroom is the issue, then a conversation could be had about the social history of public restrooms and the reasons behind discomfort.

Clearly you don't understand my point, at all, since I never once said that trans people are potential predators. I absolutely do not think that trans people are a problem population in terms of violent crime.

I said, if you dismiss the concept of passing, you are inadvertently saying any man (ie cis men) can say they're women and use the toilet and who can deny them? You've stripped the issue of any standard and since we're talking about gendered toilets here, the standard should at least be considered.

Or, get rid of all gendered toilets.

To repeat, since some people seem very dense here, I have not ever, ever said trans people are the problem.

 

[Mort Divine]

Why is a man telling all women that their comfort is irrelevant? Check your privilege white male.

The comfort is irrelevant just as the comfort of cis men is irrelevant here. This isn't a man/woman issue. (Pearl clutching think of the children types want to make it into one, but it isn't.)

It is cis people being babies because they are uncomfortable with trans people using the same facilities as them.

 

[CiG]

It is cis people being babies because they are uncomfortable with trans people using the same facilities as them.

Except no, you're wrong. Cis men are not worried about transmen using the men's toilets. So again, stop trying to tell all women that their concerns are irrelevant. Get the fuck over yourself.

 

[Dak]

It is cis people being babies because they are uncomfortable with trans people using the same facilities as them.

Because *Select_your_"oppressed"_group* can't be babies by oppression olympics definition.

 

[Mort Divine]

Except no, you're wrong. Cis men are not worried about transmen using the men's toilets. So again, stop trying to tell all women that their concerns are irrelevant. Get the fuck over yourself.

They can have a their concerns all they want, but when they're rooted in transmisogyny there is no reason to acknowledge them as legitimate.

They don't want who they perceive to be men in the room with them, but since trans women are as woman as any cis woman is the concern is baseless.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

They can have a their concerns all they want, but when they're rooted in transmisogyny there is no reason to acknowledge them as legitimate.

They don't want who they perceive to be men in the room with them, but since trans women are as woman as any cis woman is the concern is baseless.

So why not just allow transpeople to use the bathroom of their current gender, while keeping the "men's room" / "women's room" division in place?

 

[CiG]

They can have a their concerns all they want, but when they're rooted in transmisogyny there is no reason to acknowledge them as legitimate.

Not rooted in transmisogyny, probably more rooted in misandry if anything, since they're perceiving them as a threat due to their manliness. But I know that's hard for you to admit because men are scum and you're an ideologue.

They don't want who they perceive to be men in the room with them, but since trans women are as woman as any cis woman is the concern is baseless.

Transwomen are not as woman as cis women, if they were they wouldn't need HRT, dummy.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

"cisgender" what a nonsensical term. The word you guys are looking for is "normal", not a word that some dirty european made up in the 90's to comfort the morts of this world.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

but since trans women are as woman as any cis woman

honestly, you are one sick puppy.