The News Thread

Just because the US goes to war doesn't mean our lives or lifestyles were in any danger, and therefore those fighting in those wars aren't fighting for our lives and lifestyles. See: Arguably every war the US ever engaged in.

Please just refer to my last facepalm post. How many fucking times do i have to repeat myself? I hate to say it, but you seem to be nothing more than a shallow moron at times. Maybe you would have understood me a little better if i said "IF SOMEONE BOMBED US TOMORROW" instead?

Also, the world doesn't revolve around the US and its relatively short history. Military presence was shaping this world far before this country even existed. Those are things that you sadly don't seem to understand.

And yes, if militaries worldwide somehow magically collapsed or "disappeared" today, everyones lives would be in danger and the planet would be one giant mess of a warzone ... there's more people that want to take then give, sadly that's just how it is.

I also don't see a lot of dying to experience the US lifestyle.

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Wow, shallow isn't even the fucking word.
 
everyone? :lol: You mean you, mort and NG? :lol: You think i didn't know the type of responses and the people who it was going to be coming from when i initially posted? We sit on different sides of the table man ... you guys are far from "everyone", just a few left leaning liberal twats who spew out nonsense. Just shows how separated from reality some of you guys actually are.
 
Everyone who bothers to talk with you, yes.

It's too bad you judge people so quickly. You might actually learn something if you bothered to listen.
 
You're making a lot of vague statements and then erupting in butthurt when the problems are exposed. Of course world military history extends long before the US, but in how many cases were those militaries fighting for more than a paycheck and glory? There are indeed a lot of people who prefer to take rather than give, and militaries are in the business of taking. They do, of course, serve a valuable role, but the even theoretical cases where military personnel might be dying for you are slim, and the empirical cases possibly non-existent.

If we are stuck using the misinformed left-right continuum, I'm more right wing than probably anyone on this board, unless by "right wing" you mean buying lots of guns, hotdogs, and Godblessmurka/Supportdatroops flair. You remind me of a few relatives I have of that variety - they don't know how to act when a vet doesn't support their uninformed narrative either.
 
Everyone who bothers to talk with you, yes.

It's too bad you judge people so quickly. You might actually learn something if you bothered to listen.

Oh i "listened", read and laughed. Learn something from the lot of you? :lol: From people who are as disconnected from reality as you guys are? Please. That would be the equivalent of me learning something from the retarded ramblings of your fellow brethren Maher.
 
unless by "right wing" you mean buying lots of guns, hotdogs, and Godblessmurka/Supportdatroops flair.

Oh god, yea bro that's what i meant.:rolleyes: So that's what you came away with after reading my posts? Lol, yeah, i'm pretty much convinced that you're a dummy.:p Either that or your just trying to pull my strings.

"SUPPORT THE TROOPS OR YOU'RE A COMMIE AND SATAN" types

those nutcases

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You're making a lot of vague statements and then erupting in butthurt when the problems are exposed.

You "exposed" absolutely nothing, zero. If anything i'm convinced that maybe you're not too good at reading ..... and i'm being a bit generous with that statement.
 
Oh god, yea bro that's what i meant.:rolleyes: And i'm the one that's quick to judge people? So that's what you came away with after reading my posts? Lol, yeah, i'm pretty much convinced that you're a dummy.:p Either that or your just trying to pull my strings.

I'm making a pretty fair assessment of military personnel not being quite as heroic as you want to make them out to be, and your response is to label me as a "left leaning liberal" (aren't they all).

From my perspective this makes you a
"SUPPORT THE TROOPS OR YOU'RE A left leaning liberal AND a dummy" types

Edit: I assure you, by elite objective record via expensive testing, if my reading comprehension were any better it would literally be off the chart.
 
Not necessarily. I'm not labeling you for your assessment of why you think they're not heroes. I said that because of how ignorant you guys are when it comes to the military and it's importance(now AND throughout history). Which is a trait shared by most lefties. Forgive me if i'm being a bit too harsh.
 
I'm not saying it's unimportant you rube, I just refuse to place it over the hundreds of other ways in which people serve their country.
 
Yea, because all throughout history garbagemen have been just as important in shaping the world. :lol: Can you possibly be any more softheaded?

I don't give a shit about how the world has been shaped through history, I'm talking about how our society fucking runs. as of now. currently.
 
Ironically Eastwood said it was an antiwar film.

I really hate that some people see the film this way. It's been said that it's about PTSD or the struggles of a family in the military during a time of war.

There's maybe 15 minutes, tops, of actual "Oh fuck war messed him up" segments in the film, and while it's clear the film addresses that issue, it does not take over the overwhelming impact of the Christian hero in Iraq scenario.

His wife tells him, in ONE scene, after his like 3rd tour that if he leaves for Iraq one more time she's going to leave. Nothing is said, he hugs her, he goes to Iraq, she's still around. Bogus fucking point. Kyle, if the film is true, is an idiot for using a goddamn SAT phone to call his wife while he's on patrols as well. I can't believe I saw that shit, but it could be faked for the drama of the movie. There's also, at least in my experience, more problems with being "home" for families rather than deployment. Some wives can/do move home with their families etc. But during a service member's time at a duty station, it's pretty problematic. This superficial understanding of the military is apparent in the film. There's no discussion about his week long training missions or late nights, or the fact that she might have to live in a shitty area without job opportunities because Kyle was stationed where he was. Instead, she's just the wife who would never cheat on her man bullshit that was spewed, which by the way isn't probably true at all. Military wives are a really shady breed of human beings, largely. But i'm glad she inserted that narrative in the film to make herself look good <- sarcasm.

Everyone that puts their life on the line so we can sit here and chit-chat with each other online, sit on our couches and watch tv etc is a fuckin hero in my book, not just Chris Kyle.

But yea, i don't know why they decided to pick someone out and glorify him. That's not what the military is about.

I'm trying to find a clip of where Maher showed the Navy commercial and then proceeded to thrash it.

Well with this, the problem is that Kyle glorified himself. He's an asshole in my opinion, because he profited off the death of his friends and enemies and I doubt his familiy donates a large percentage (over 50%) of the profits for the film and or the book. I also didn't like Lone Survivor for that reason. You know who was a bigger hero than Kyle? His fucking buddy who jumped on a grenade and died for it. He got like 30s of mention in the film and probably isn't getting shit for his time in Kyle's life. Fuck Kyle and Lattrell for this, I am strongly against war time profiting. Band of Brothers did it right. Wait 50 years, have a historian come by and learn their stories, and agree to share it.

Way I see it is military members are no more important to our society functioning than a garbage man or high school teacher so they are no more deserving of praise than you would give any other person for doing their job.

The difference in either of these cases are the hardships that one volunteers for, as well as the inability to enjoy freedoms and fight for better wages etc. Sure every citizen has a basic/quantified function of society, but I can't agree that anyone else has a bigger piece of the pie than active duty, combat servicemen.

I'm sure you have a mental list of the pecking order of those in society who have importance, and I would be interested in hearing it.

So, are the soldiers that fought for Germany in World War II heroes in your book? The Viet Cong? The Republican Guard?
You don't think hero is a relative term?

I'm just curious as to your response, but even framing the situation like this misses the point. Creating a form of hero worship around soldiers is nothing more than a distraction from the contradictions of war in the first place. There's nothing righteous or heroic about going to war and fighting for your country, since no country goes to war "for freedom." Heroism is an institution as old as Classical Greece, but it isn't by any means a truth about the nature of battle.

Hero worship makes it easier for a country to support going to war when doing so may not be in anyone's best interest.

You don't think the North Vietnamese went to war for their idea of freedom/how they should live their life? It would seem that any country on the defensive side would fall under the category of preserving their freedom.

Do you think police and firefighters are heroic?
 
That was directed toward TB's comment. He professed that if someone puts their life on the line for someone else, then that qualifies as a hero; I was asking him to clarify further.

In my opinion, what we call "heroism" is entirely relative. Going even further, I don't think such a thing as heroism actually exists. It began as a literary tradition, and no real person lives up to the true image of "the Hero." I think that heroism is an institution that we've created and project onto certain people. On top of that, it expands into a dangerous ideology that rationalizes wartime attitudes against other countries in the name of "support our troops."
 
Well with this, the problem is that Kyle glorified himself. He's an asshole in my opinion, because he profited off the death of his friends and enemies and I doubt his familiy donates a large percentage (over 50%) of the profits for the film and or the book. I also didn't like Lone Survivor for that reason. You know who was a bigger hero than Kyle? His fucking buddy who jumped on a grenade and died for it. He got like 30s of mention in the film and probably isn't getting shit for his time in Kyle's life. Fuck Kyle and Lattrell for this, I am strongly against war time profiting. Band of Brothers did it right. Wait 50 years, have a historian come by and learn their stories, and agree to share it.

I agree with just about everything here. War time profiting is absolutely disgusting. But honestly i can't really comment on Kyle because i haven't seen the movie and don't even know his story. All i know is that he was an overwatch sniper that saved lives .. or at least that's what i've heard. I didn't even know he wasn't alive till a few days ago. I'm curious as to how he glorified himself since he was dead by the time the movie was released. Was it the book he wrote? But yeah, there's no place for that shit. It's one of the main reasons i don't really give a shit about that one guy who shot Bin Laden that fox news was parading around for the past few months.

Oh and BoB fuckin' rocks! :kickass: I also really enjoyed The Pacific, but im probably in the minority here.
 
In my opinion, what we call "heroism" is entirely relative. Going even further, I don't think such a thing as heroism actually exists. It began as a literary tradition, and no real person lives up to the true image of "the Hero." I think that heroism is an institution that we've created and project onto certain people. On top of that, it expands into a dangerous ideology that rationalizes wartime attitudes against other countries in the name of "support our troops."

If heroism is relative, then how does it not exist? Arguing of a literary definition throughout periods of time seems like it would spring up a lot of scholars careers, but there are differences in a fantastical and real life hero. I would correlate the same of a Romance film and its male lead in the same way.

Support our troops is a different argument then what you're suggesting about nationalist tendencies or whatever, in my opinion.

Oh and BoB fuckin' rocks! I also really enjoyed The Pacific, but im probably in the minority here.

Never actually got around to finishing it, but it definitely wasn't on the same level as Band of Brothers.
 
IMO if you're going to be nationalist just do it. "We're going over there to kill people for the benefit of our country" Don't make excuses, just do it. Or don't do it and keep the moral high ground attitude. What gets me is this country tries to have both. Not a problem with either, but quit trying to have it both ways.
 
If heroism is relative, then how does it not exist?

Okay, so take beauty for an example; everyone has their own perceptions of what constitutes an attractive person, or a good book, or a good song, etc. In this sense, beauty is relative, but no absolute standard of beauty exists. It's not as though you can go to an internationally acknowledged museum and ask to the see the Paris Metre of Beauty Itself. "Beauty Itself" does not exist, just as "Heroism Itself" does not exist.