The News Thread

[TechnicalBarbarity]

It is false to smear the entire pro-life position as right-wing and religious.

Indeed, i'm not religious at all and am 100% pro-life.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

I think the pro-choice position is fundamentally flawed because it takes an absolutist stance on something that is entwined with science.

Our views (scientifically) of when the fetus goes from a clump of cells to a humanoid life has evolved so much in such a short period of time. It is false to smear the entire pro-life position as right-wing and religious given that the advancement of the relevant science, it is no longer a religious debate about souls. Christopher Hitchens was one of the reasons I changed from pro-choice to pro-life in my teens because he made a irreligious argument for it.

There will come a point when the left and atheism in general has to choose between an ideological absolutist position like pro-choice and a scientifically informed position on the fetus and abortion, which by its nature isn't a static one.

Neither side is inherently any more "absolutist" than the other.

 

[CiG]

Bullshit.

People joke but I'd really like to see a world where the poor and/or irresponsible are forced on long-lasting contraceptive. Not sterilized, but there's some female methods that last 5+ years and I think the dude thing is reversible with scant side effects? You should have a minimum salary and level of stability before you're allowed to take it out.

Wow.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Bullshit.

Pro-life: life begins at conception, all abortion is wrong
Pro-choice: life begins at birth, all abortion is just a medical procedure removing unwanted tissue

Those are the absolutist stances. Neither is uncommon to hear.

 

[CiG]

Pro-life has always at its very least, allowed for abortion in instances wherein the mother's life is at risk.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Pro-life has always at its very least, allowed for abortion in instances wherein the mother's life is at risk.

When you say you're pro-life, how pro-life are we talking? I might be misunderstanding your point.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

Pro-life: life begins at conception, all abortion is wrong

SpermcatcherBoys display of ignorance and idiocy #235876824876

Pro-life has always at its very least, allowed for abortion in instances wherein the mother's life is at risk.

And when a women is raped

 

[CiG]

When you say you're pro-life, how pro-life are we talking? I might be misunderstanding your point.

That's the point, that pro-choice is a static position which hasn't changed much if at all, whereas pro-life constantly evolves with the science and that's because the science itself took pro-life as a position out of the exclusive religious context.

Pro-choice was and always will be stuck in the context of muh women's rights, irregardless of what the science ever says about fetal development and viability.

And when a women is raped

There are definitely a lot of pro-lifers that don't take that stance. Ben Shapiro for example, he says that the fetus' basic human right to not be killed is unrelated to the crime that was committed against the fetus' mother.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

And when a women is raped

Some pro-lifers are against that. And why shouldn't they be? The innocent fetus didn't choose to be conceived of rape.

That's the point, that pro-choice is a static position which hasn't changed much if at all, whereas pro-life constantly evolves with the science and that's because the science itself took pro-life as a position out of the exclusive religious context.

Pro-choice was and always will be stuck in the context of muh women's rights, irregardless of what the science ever says about fetal development and viability.

Ok so then it's like I thought, you changed your mind not because you agreed with somebody, but because you wanted to belong to a political camp that better appealed to your "Feminist Killer" urges.

The frequency with which a view changes has no bearing on the validity of a view. A person that holds torture as an unjustifiable form of legal punishment is significantly less evolving than a person that asks, "But what if..." every day. Some pro-choice people believe that very late-term abortions shouldn't be allowed.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

And some pro lifers are against ALL kids of abortion, including if the mothers life is at risk. So?

 

[HamburgerBoy]

And some pro lifers are against ALL kids of abortion, including if the mothers life is at risk. So?

So CASSETTE's post that only side side is absolutist is false.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

http://thefederalist.com/2016/01/19/poll-80-percent-of-women-support-late-term-abortion-bans/

Damn those stubborn, rigid, absolutist pro-choicers!

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

So CASSETTE's post that only side side is absolutist is false.

indeed it is, just like your life.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

indeed it is, just like your life.

I'm fairly certain I exist, unlike a make-believe internet tough guy that travels the world to kill Muslims or whatever it was you did on your trip east a couple years ago.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

I'm fairly certain I exist,

yes, on the internet.

 

[CiG]

And some pro lifers are against ALL kids of abortion, including if the mothers life is at risk. So?

I would say they're the fringe.

Ok so then it's like I thought, you changed your mind not because you agreed with somebody, but because you wanted to belong to a political camp that better appealed to your "Feminist Killer" urges.

I came to be pro-life while I still considered myself a feminist, you autist pedophile.

I didn't flip on feminism until like 2015.

Some pro-choice people believe that very late-term abortions shouldn't be allowed.

http://thefederalist.com/2016/01/19/poll-80-percent-of-women-support-late-term-abortion-bans/

Damn those stubborn, rigid, absolutist pro-choicers!

The title says 80% but the relevant number is contained within which is 66% of pro-choicers support a late term abortion ban, but anyway point taken.

Though I think this begs the question: at what point does a pro-choicer become pro-life but keep referring to themselves as pro-choice?

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

I would say they're the fringe.

That would be correct.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

The title says 80% but the relevant number is contained within which is 66% of pro-choicers support a late term abortion ban, but anyway point taken.

So a 2-to-1 split means an absolutist consensus now? lmao.

 

[CiG]

So a 2-to-1 split means an absolutist consensus now? lmao.

No I wasn't aware of this 2016 study, as I said, your point is taken.

In Australia it's still quite different.

 

[CiG]

Polls open in northern Iraq as Kurds cast ballots in referendum on whether to support separation from Baghdad.
People in Iraq's autonomous region of Kurdistan are voting in a controversial referendum, amid rising tensions and international opposition.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/09/iraqi-kurds-vote-independence-referendum-170925032733525.html