The News Thread
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crimsonfloyd
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We can add this to fat shaming a voter in Iowa and calling a woman in New Hampshire a "lying dog faced pony soldier," not mention many other spats with voters. It's bad enough that he's corrupt, has a terrible voting record, and has cognitive decline, but he's also an asshole. If it wasn't for the whole Coronavirus catastrophe, the Dems would be heading toward an electoral landslide defeat.
I'll never understand why Bernie, the anti-corruption candidate, didn't call out Biden's corruption with his son, or say "Biden will be Hillary Clinton all over again and he will lose to Trump for the exact same reasons." His opponents were triggering Democrat's "socialism can't win" fear, and he needed to counter by triggering their 2016 PTSD. I know either of these arguments would have sent MSNBC, CNN, and the New York Times to go into overdrive crucifying him, but they ended up doing it anyways. Most older voters just want to beat Trump and are picking candidates based out of fear.
Oblivious Maximus
I am the worm
CiG
Harbinger of Metal
We can add this to fat shaming a voter in Iowa and calling a woman in New Hampshire a "lying dog faced pony soldier," not mention many other spats with voters. It's bad enough that he's corrupt, has a terrible voting record, and has cognitive decline, but he's also an asshole. If it wasn't for the whole Coronavirus catastrophe, the Dems would be heading toward an electoral landslide defeat.
I'll never understand why Bernie, the anti-corruption candidate, didn't call out Biden's corruption with his son, or say "Biden will be Hillary Clinton all over again and he will lose to Trump for the exact same reasons." His opponents were triggering Democrat's "socialism can't win" fear, and he needed to counter by triggering their 2016 PTSD. I know either of these arguments would have sent MSNBC, CNN, and the New York Times to go into overdrive crucifying him, but they ended up doing it anyways. Most older voters just want to beat Trump and are picking candidates based out of fear.
Bernie "my good friend Joe" Sanders has shown time and time again he doesn't have the backbone to get the job done. In a way, this might be a good thing for the progressives because the sooner they get over the idea that Bernie is their saviour the sooner they'll be able to grow the movement beyond being a fanclub for an old guy and maybe start pushing forward younger leaders.
Michael Tracey (good independent journalist) has been talking recently about how roughly 5 years of "Trump has brought fascism to America"/#Russiagate has victimized the electorate into making conservative choices like supporting Biden because he's safe, solid and establishment and thus can "return the office to normalcy" which is the Democrats' version of MAGA tbh.
Maddow-types have effectively created the perfect storm for Bernie to lose to Biden because of the level of nonstop hysteria pumped into the world.
CiG
Harbinger of Metal
Should probably go in the Mort thread but whatever. I thought this was a fake Tweet at first, but nope it's legit (and he got absolutely roasted in the responses).
(http://twitter.com/StephenKing/status/1238548689506926595)
HamburgerBoy
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The return to normalcy is actually something much more pathetic imo. MAGA is a bit vague on its own but it was always used (during Trump's campaign at least) in the context of pointing out the failings of the establishment and attacking problems like illegal immigration, job losses, middle class stagnation, etc in the most unfiltered way possible, actually somewhat progressive/radical in its purpose. The "return to normalcy" is more the anti-MAGA, the idea that not only do the problems not exist but that we need to go backwards in time to the days when no one even talked about them. If you've seen the "I just wanna grill for godssake" meme, that's basically the cornerstone of Biden's campaign, just the silly old guy in Ray-Bans struggling to quote John Wayne movies.
The most hilarious irony is that the very phrase "return to normalcy" was originally coined by the 1920 conservative Republican victor Warren G Harding, as a way of shitting on two previous decades of progressive left-leaning populism, and that for various reasons (not all of them justified imo but that's besides the point) Harding is widely considered one of the all-time worst presidents in our nation's entire history. Though for what it's worth, it was an extremely successful campaign on Harding's front, especially since America was in the middle of a sudden sharp recession, so I think in the short run Biden could do well and win 2020, especially since it looks like the economy may totally shit the bed in Trump's last year. But there's little chance that a Biden presidency will accomplish anything good other than defeating the big evil Drumpf.
CiG
Harbinger of Metal
Point taken of course, but at the same time I think the Democrats' version of MAGA is always going to be pathetic by comparison, it kinda comes with the territory. These are the some mongoloids who think epicly roasting someone online is regurgitating 2 year old slurs that were used against them, in some bizarre/boomer attempt to co-opt the language.
These are the same people whose best rebuttal to MAGA is "America was never great in the first place" lmao. They're fucking faggots. Didn't know that tidbit about the origin of "return to normalcy" though, that's interesting. Speaking of Babbling Biden, when was the last time a president didn't serve two terms?
These are the same people whose best rebuttal to MAGA is "America was never great in the first place" lmao. They're fucking faggots. Didn't know that tidbit about the origin of "return to normalcy" though, that's interesting. Speaking of Babbling Biden, when was the last time a president didn't serve two terms?
Dak
mentat
HamburgerBoy
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lmao, Trump officially has a stock market drop worse than any of Hoover's on his record now. Kind of glad Sanders is ded in the polls now, Biden has zero chance of being an FDR. Looking forward to four more years of spineless corporate liberalism and quantitative easing.
Einherjar86
Active Member
All these catchphrases are coopted. "Make America great again" was Reagan, which is actually one of the best rebuttals to MAGA. Reagan is the origin of both neoliberalism and neoconservatism, the fucking globalist horrors of our day.
EDIT: actually, I shouldn't say origin; more like he was the culmination. Neoconservatism has its origins back in the 1960s when conservative groups began reacting to left-wing activists and counterculture movements. And neoliberalism goes back to settler colonialism--Reagan and Thatcher just emboldened and reinforced it.
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CiG
Harbinger of Metal
When rebutting a slogan, especially a political one, the primary goal should be to address those who are buying into it. This is why "America was never great in the first place" is such a shit rebuttal and that's also why I think your rebuttal sucks too. Reagan cynicism on the right is definitely a thing, but I don't know that pointing out that MAGA comes from Reagan will turn many if any away from Trump.
Einherjar86
Active Member
My comment was a bit tongue-in-cheek, admittedly. You're right, it wouldn't sway Trump supporters. The best argument there is that the "America" that his slogan promises isn't actually for the low-income voters he's courting.
Also, I wouldn't say that "America was never great in the first place," but that the pristine vision of America championed by MAGA and by many neoconservatives was always an illusion structurally designed to hypnotize voters. It's not that it wasn't great--it's that it never actually existed (except on TV and billboards).
Also, I wouldn't say that "America was never great in the first place," but that the pristine vision of America championed by MAGA and by many neoconservatives was always an illusion structurally designed to hypnotize voters. It's not that it wasn't great--it's that it never actually existed (except on TV and billboards).
HamburgerBoy
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Reagan did make America great though, in the sense that he swung his dick around, accomplished his most ambitious goals, revived a patriotic spirit that won over many moderates, and gave new energy to a dying American conservatism. The steps he had to take to do that were frequently terrible and in retrospect he was a horrible president (as most have been post-Taft), but the slogan was great and Trump stealinging it was the right move from a marketing approach.
EDIT: Unrelated but holy shit, just discovered that the federal reserve has suspended all reserve requirements for banks. And lefties still have the gall to pretend we live under a free market economy, hahahahhahaha.
EDIT: Unrelated but holy shit, just discovered that the federal reserve has suspended all reserve requirements for banks. And lefties still have the gall to pretend we live under a free market economy, hahahahhahaha.
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TechnicalBarbarity
Poser Disposer
this is pretty much a fact and for anyone to say otherwise just shows that they're either ill informed or just plain ignorant.
CiG
Harbinger of Metal
Edit: I don't know if Bernie's anti-borders nonsense had any impact on him getting blown out, but it's probably a good thing considering what's going on.
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Einherjar86
Active Member
I'm not sure how to square these.
I think the point that a lot of leftists make is that what many conservatives call the free market isn't actually free. At least, that's always been my position. The "free market" is only "free" for certain people (and it's not actually free).
HamburgerBoy
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I agree with you, but a very common current from the more-left side of things (e.g. the Kulinskis, Young Turks, etc) has been that Reagan started a neoliberal movement in America that no president since has failed to continue, and that our markets are far more free today than they were in, say, the 1960s. Usually, the argument follows the form of "X costs more, X-selling corporations are making record profits, the middle class is going backwards in annual income, therefore it's the fault of runaway capitalism and wealth", and ignores the countless ways that corporations and governments work together for their mutual benefit, while squeezing small businesses and the self-employed out of the markets.
re CIG: Seeing some rumors (unverified posts from alleged family members of Tulsi) that Sanders actually refused Tulsi's endorsement, though they look questionable right now. But apparently all DNC candidates were forced to sign a pledge that they'd endorse the victor, and it's basically mathematical certainty that Biden will win now anyways.
re CIG: Seeing some rumors (unverified posts from alleged family members of Tulsi) that Sanders actually refused Tulsi's endorsement, though they look questionable right now. But apparently all DNC candidates were forced to sign a pledge that they'd endorse the victor, and it's basically mathematical certainty that Biden will win now anyways.
CiG
Harbinger of Metal
Yeah this isn't exactly shocking to me tbh, though it must sting for him to lose one of his biggest allies (unless what you say is true and he refused her endorsement... sounds odd). People freaking out over it seem to have forgotten that Tulsi openly said (pledges aside) that she would support whoever the nominee is because in the end her goal is to also get Trump out of office.
HamburgerBoy
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Not that odd when you consider she's widely demonized on all non-FOX cable media as a Russian plant or as gunning for a FOX contributor job. He and others had multiple chances to defend her in the early debates, and everyone basically ignored her (except when the HRC accusation came up and Mayor Butt gave a generic "I'm a fellow soldier and I'm proud to serve Murrica and I'm proud of Tulsi's service to the country" defense).
HamburgerBoy
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Apparently there are now two Republican US Senators (Richard Burr and Kelly Loeffler) that have been found to have sold over a million dollars each of stocks after coronavirus-related briefings, and could very well be charged with insider trading, or at least forced to resign. Both represent purple-red states with rapidly-shifting demographics and this could be the tipping point to turn both chambers blue in 2020.
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