The News Thread
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Einherjar86
Active Member
The more I look at the overall issue, the more I think emphasis on police brutality specifically is misplaced. That's not to say it's a non-issue, but that it's only one part of a much larger problem, that being the disproportionate incarceration of African Americans. Police brutality is the shock of physical violence that makes for good news--especially when it's caught on tape. But the slow violence of demographic incarceration is harder to visualize and impossible to capture on a video camera.
African Americans have greater cause to fear serious repercussions if apprehended by the police, which may account for certain behavioral characteristics during arrest and the tendency of police brutality toward African American males. It's true that more white people are killed by police; but if you isolate the African American community, an individual black man has a greater chance of being arrested/assaulted by police than an individual white man does. The asymmetry gives rise to warranted rifts between how blacks and whites perceive the police. However, the more substantial disparity comes once black suspects are delivered to the criminal justice system, where they face a greater chance of being convicted or of having their charges trumped up. This isn't to say they were innocent upon arrest, but rather that relatively minor offenses (having weed in their car or stealing) translate into charges often reserved for more serious crimes.
African Americans have greater cause to fear serious repercussions if apprehended by the police, which may account for certain behavioral characteristics during arrest and the tendency of police brutality toward African American males. It's true that more white people are killed by police; but if you isolate the African American community, an individual black man has a greater chance of being arrested/assaulted by police than an individual white man does. The asymmetry gives rise to warranted rifts between how blacks and whites perceive the police. However, the more substantial disparity comes once black suspects are delivered to the criminal justice system, where they face a greater chance of being convicted or of having their charges trumped up. This isn't to say they were innocent upon arrest, but rather that relatively minor offenses (having weed in their car or stealing) translate into charges often reserved for more serious crimes.
CiG
Coming of Age in the Milky Way
That's somewhat misleading. If we're going to isolate the black community, black males are also committing crimes at greater rates which does to some degree impact how police on average interact with black males. Doesn't justify ignoring a guy saying over and over he can't breath obviously.
Is there actually proof that minor charges like petty theft or weed possession translate into heavier charges? I'd assume anybody getting a heavy charge for a petty crime is because they had priors or maybe their actual crime was more serious but they plead it down to something that ends up looking petty on the books and at face value doesn't seem to match the penalties handed out.
Is there actually proof that minor charges like petty theft or weed possession translate into heavier charges? I'd assume anybody getting a heavy charge for a petty crime is because they had priors or maybe their actual crime was more serious but they plead it down to something that ends up looking petty on the books and at face value doesn't seem to match the penalties handed out.
Einherjar86
Active Member
I don't mean to be misleading; yes, crime rates are also higher if we isolate the black community. All I'm saying is that black people are disproportionately affected by police brutality if we're looking at the percentage of those impacted within the community. We have to imagine how that manifests phenomenologically--i.e. that from the perspective of many black people (not all, but many) it seems as though police brutality is happening in dense clusters within their communities. For more whites than blacks, police brutality looks like a rare and often distant phenomenon. So what may not appear to be a problem for one demographic looks very much like a problem for another.
Generally speaking, blacks receive sentences ten times longer than whites for the same crimes; but there are obviously multiple reasons for this, some of which speak to your comments. Certainly the defendant can take a plea, but this raises questions about availability and quality of representation. There's also the issue of priors and legislation like the "three strikes" rule, but these disproportionately impact African Americans and usually for petty crimes; so blacks imprisoned three times for having drugs potentially face longer sentences than a white man convicted of killing someone.
https://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2413&context=articles
TechnicalBarbarity
Poser Disposer
speak for yourself, plenty of white people would disagree. Anyone who commits crime is worried about getting fucked up by the cops. And statistically blacks are more likely to commit crimes so yes a lot of them are a bit more worried when it comes to the situation, but to say its a "distant phenomenon" for whites shows that you're once again speaking from your own privileged view.
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*Criminals(especially ones with priors) have greater cause to fear police. Regardless of race.
if you isolate the african american community, an individual black man has a much greater chance of assaulting and/or murdering another human being than an individual white man.
again, i cant stand reading stuff like this from someone like yourself who has no experience in the real world and only echoes whatever it is he hears and reads form the media.... this is pretty much bullshit for the most part as someone who gets sentenced for murder will always be in jail longer than anyone who was swept up in the three stirkes law for just "having drugs". That being said, whatever you're trying to imply again has nothing to do with race and a lot of white dudes in jail who are serving stretches for petty priors would tell you the same thing. A white person with priors is going to get a far longer sentence than a black guy who has a clean record. Again, i dislike the fact that you're constantly injecting this divisive race-baiting formula into all of your topics. Especially one you seem to not be knowledgeable in at all.
Einherjar86
Active Member
The three-strikes law applies differently depending on state, but it's entirely possible for someone convicted of a violent crime to serve less time than someone convicted of a non-violent felony charge for the third time. There are thousands of inmates serving life sentences with no chance of parole for non-violent crimes. A lot has been reported on this.
Whether race factors into it or not can be debated, but there's a lot of evidence to suggest that it does: https://www.ussc.gov/research/research-reports/demographic-differences-sentencing
Whether race factors into it or not can be debated, but there's a lot of evidence to suggest that it does: https://www.ussc.gov/research/research-reports/demographic-differences-sentencing
TechnicalBarbarity
Poser Disposer
you're the last person here who needs to tell me anything bout the three strikes law. I have argued about the hardships that law has caused on the general public(again, regardless of race) and how unfair it is .... in this very thread..... numerous times. You specifically said "killing someone" vs "having drugs on them". Nice job on trying to stretch the goalposts. And yes, i know plenty of people who are doing time for having priors and being busted with drugs who have served and are serving far long crimes than say if you or some black guy with no criminal record decided to beat someone up. Not sure why i would need to explain to anyone that people with priors get longer times. If you are on parole or probation you are going to serve more time than someone who has no record.
i like what you did there. Youre such a disingenuous cunt. So what if the guy has two prior arrests for violent crimes? Would you be surprised that he is going to serve a longer stretch than someone who committed assault and had zero priors? Would you be surprised that someone busted twice for slanging dope would be sentenced longer than someone who got into a fight at a bar for the first time in his life?
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TechnicalBarbarity
Poser Disposer
and a little off subject, but lumping all "nonviolent crimes" in the same category is again ridiculous and indicates that whoever is pushing for an argument like that is very inexperienced when it comes to life outside of their little gated communities. Just to be clear, a crack dealer for example is a far greater threat to society than someone who assaulted another person and deserves to be in jail far longer. He can wash away the lives of entire neighborhoods and even cities and communities depending on what level he is on. But again, what would people like Ein know about this? Absolutely nothing. People who have been constantly busted for slanging dope are some of the worst human beings in existence and end up having the blood of numerous people on their hands and definitely do not deserve to see the light of day.
HamburgerBoy
Active Member
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One anecdote regarding "the same crime" that comes to mind was in Minnesota, where a white guy who had raped a Tinder hookup received a much shorter sentence than a black guy who had raped a jogger, despite both having the same-degree rape convictions. Caused a bit of internet outrage, but it turned out that the white rapist was a date-rapist who drugged his victim, while the black rapist kidnapped his victim off a sidewalk, beat her brutally breaking several bones in her face, and then raped her. Not that both don't deserve bullets, but a lot of criminal charges lack fine resolution, where going from a slap to a punch might be the difference between second- and first-degree assault, and where pummeling a guy on the ground into a blob of flesh might also still be first-degree assault so long as the victim doesn't die.
Where you see the greatest disparity tends to be in economic class, e.g. the rich affluenza kid vs others that kill people DUI. If there's one area of our government that really needs a lot more funding, it's our justice system. The current plea deal system is total bullshit and ones ability to afford a fancy lawyer is a massive determinant in ones sentence received.
Also, there are a lot of retards out there that try to compare charges between two different states, when everyone with a hint of honesty or knowledge knows that a conviction in Alabama vs Vermont can yield two extremely different sentences.
Where you see the greatest disparity tends to be in economic class, e.g. the rich affluenza kid vs others that kill people DUI. If there's one area of our government that really needs a lot more funding, it's our justice system. The current plea deal system is total bullshit and ones ability to afford a fancy lawyer is a massive determinant in ones sentence received.
Also, there are a lot of retards out there that try to compare charges between two different states, when everyone with a hint of honesty or knowledge knows that a conviction in Alabama vs Vermont can yield two extremely different sentences.
TechnicalBarbarity
Poser Disposer
... i again agree with just about all of that. Everyone knows that different sates have different views and even laws and i dont think anyone here even came close to arguing against that. But doing longer times because you have priors is how it goes down everywhere. Doing longer time because you were on parole or probation when committing a crime is the norm everywhere. And that has nothing to do with race.
Einherjar86
Active Member
I wasn't trying to be disingenuous. I'm sure there are examples in which non-fatal violent felonies receive shorter sentences--and some probably longer--than non-violent third-strike convictions. I was only citing that there are cases of convictions of violent felonies that resulted in fatalities in which the sentencing is shorter than convictions in non-violent felony charges.
I'm sure there are also cases in which particulars of a case factor into the sentencing, but those particulars tend not to make it into the legalese. In the eyes of the law, a felony is a felony; and a prosecutor/judge can hand down more severe sentencing for a non-violent felony than a violent one if they choose, according to three strikes. In other words, there are variations of three strikes that make no distinction between violent and non-violent felonies. I'm not accusing anyone of being racist, but it's still true that these laws tend to affect black felons disproportionately, even when controlling for criminal history. That's what studies have shown.
There will always be particulars that escape legislative protocol. Individual anecdotes likely don't account for the sum total of discrepancies.
I'm sure there are also cases in which particulars of a case factor into the sentencing, but those particulars tend not to make it into the legalese. In the eyes of the law, a felony is a felony; and a prosecutor/judge can hand down more severe sentencing for a non-violent felony than a violent one if they choose, according to three strikes. In other words, there are variations of three strikes that make no distinction between violent and non-violent felonies. I'm not accusing anyone of being racist, but it's still true that these laws tend to affect black felons disproportionately, even when controlling for criminal history. That's what studies have shown.
There will always be particulars that escape legislative protocol. Individual anecdotes likely don't account for the sum total of discrepancies.
TechnicalBarbarity
Poser Disposer
what i find more funny is when people always bring up the "violent crimes" vs "non violent crimes" in these debates. Honestly all it does is just expose how clueless most of them are when it comes to such things.
Who should serve more time? Someone who threatened to beat you up or someone who stole your identity and drained you for everything you had?
Who should serve more time? Someone who spit on you or someone who burglarized your house?
Who should do more time? Someone who burned down your property or someone who you got into a fight with at the bar?
i'm sorry but this again just showcases that you have zero actual experience in any of this and you probably have never even had a conversation with anyone who has dealt with or been in said situations. Please sit down.
"A felony is a felony" BUT THEY'RE ALL DA SAME lmfao oh my dear gods
Who should serve more time? Someone who threatened to beat you up or someone who stole your identity and drained you for everything you had?
Who should serve more time? Someone who spit on you or someone who burglarized your house?
Who should do more time? Someone who burned down your property or someone who you got into a fight with at the bar?
i'm sorry but this again just showcases that you have zero actual experience in any of this and you probably have never even had a conversation with anyone who has dealt with or been in said situations. Please sit down."A felony is a felony" BUT THEY'RE ALL DA SAME lmfao oh my dear gods
Einherjar86
Active Member
I haven't, you're right--but I think that studies on the subject by people who've spoken with people in the system and examined hundreds upon hundreds of cases are more authoritative than your personal conversations. That's just me, and I'm just sharing what I've read.
TechnicalBarbarity
Poser Disposer
"personal conversations" smh
im still having a good laugh at you basically saying "particulars of a case dont usually get factored in when sentencing" lmfao man that one is just ... wow. just wow. That is 100% incorrect and anyone who has dealt with the courts would laugh reading this.
anyway, the whole point of what i was trying to say before you again injected your usual nonsense into this was that the cops basically murdered that man, and the usual suspects continue to use the ending of a man's life to cause hate, anger and fear via racial division and stir up as much hate as possible so we all fight each other instead of what is clearly a broken system. That man should be alive today and those cops should be in jail. Regardless of what race anyone involved in that incident is. white victim, black or chinese cops etc makes no difference on my stance.
im still having a good laugh at you basically saying "particulars of a case dont usually get factored in when sentencing" lmfao man that one is just ... wow. just wow. That is 100% incorrect and anyone who has dealt with the courts would laugh reading this.
anyway, the whole point of what i was trying to say before you again injected your usual nonsense into this was that the cops basically murdered that man, and the usual suspects continue to use the ending of a man's life to cause hate, anger and fear via racial division and stir up as much hate as possible so we all fight each other instead of what is clearly a broken system. That man should be alive today and those cops should be in jail. Regardless of what race anyone involved in that incident is. white victim, black or chinese cops etc makes no difference on my stance.
Einherjar86
Active Member
I didn't say that. I actually said they do factor into sentencing, but don't make it into the legalese; that allows leeway for prosecutors and judges when handing down sentencing.
TechnicalBarbarity
Poser Disposer
no, you basically said there are some cases where they do, when in reality they get factored into just about every single case. But yeah, i really have no desire to give and take with the same type of person i described in the second part of my last post. Regardless of what happens, all you care about is pointing your finger at the white man. You're a by-the-book caricature of the modern day race baiting liberal wokelet. You are pretty much nothing more than a product that has been molded and hand crafted by the hate filled "progressives" who have infiltrated our school systems and mass media. A child of Saul Alinksy.
rms
Active Member
you and the "usual suspects" shouldn't be "fighting" each other since the solution(charging the cop with murder/manslaughter whatever) is the best for both sides.
TechnicalBarbarity
Poser Disposer
... well thanks for again proving that you're a scramble-brained idiot since you clearly dont even seem to understand my complaint regarding the "usual suspects". I mean, how much slower can you possibly be?
rms
Active Member
It's ok to not understand why black people don't believe he's going to get arrested nor sentenced nor see structural changes. You think they are the reason things aren't changing, not that people in power are fundamentally dumb and/or prejudiced against black people
I see you struggle with race, "white, black or Chinese " and "African American community" , didn't realize you were an old white man cosplaying as an armenian
I see you struggle with race, "white, black or Chinese "
and "African American community" , didn't realize you were an old white man cosplaying as an armenian
TechnicalBarbarity
Poser Disposer
since you're a smooth brained idiot i guess its ok to not understand why any criminal wouldn't think they're going to get a fair sentence. But its not ok to blame everything on race like you people usually do. Tbh all it does is point out just how much give and take you guys ave actualy had in said communities. "My one black friend in the army told me he would kill people for pizza" i laugh at people like you who im almost sure have never in their lives lived anywhere near communities made up of the same minorities you think youre standing up for.
And lol at implying that Armenians arent racially white. Not only are we literally "whiter" than jews, italians, greeks and a bunch of other races that pretty much define the word nowadays, but we are one of the oldest "white" races. The terms Caucasian and even Aryan comes from our region. But yeah, what would a pea brained nitwit life yourself know?
i laugh at people like you who im almost sure have never in their lives lived anywhere near communities made up of the same minorities you think youre standing up for.And lol at implying that Armenians arent racially white.
Not only are we literally "whiter" than jews, italians, greeks and a bunch of other races that pretty much define the word nowadays, but we are one of the oldest "white" races. The terms Caucasian and even Aryan comes from our region. But yeah, what would a pea brained nitwit life yourself know?im sorry you had trouble with that, shoulda used yellow instead of chinese to make it clearer for you."white, black or Chinese "
