The News Thread

[Tonka Time]

I don't want to sound condescending because I like debating these kinds of things; but a lot of you guys are not thinking this through.

"Attacking anyone that has the right to use lethal force when they feel their life is in danger is fucking retarded."

This is an incredibly dangerous position to hold; it basically concedes that police can do anything because challenging their actions is "retarded."

Challenging an officers actions doesn't mean assaulting them.

If I had typed challenging or disagreeing with, then yes I'd agree with your statement.

Furthermore, police should not have the unquestionable right to use lethal force. This is one of the most ridiculous concepts in our culture, along with the fact that many people still assume that all police are upstanding, intelligent, and judicious wielders of the power they possess. If police officers do have a right to use lethal force, then every other individual should possess that same right; setting it aside for law enforcement is the retarded position.

The police are human and are not perfect. No they do not have the unquestionable right to use lethal force. That's why it is questioned every time they do. If it was unquestionable he wouldn't have been in court.

Every other individual does have the right to use lethal force and it's called self-defense.

Finally, that which constitutes potentially violent, or dangerous, action between a police officer (in possession of a firearm, with the support of the political machine behind him/her) and an unarmed black is by no means an easily discernible fact. There are social conditions and expectations that complicate the matter far beyond the bare minimum of two individuals facing one another.

Now I haven't followed this case very much at all and I don't know what evidence was collected, but unarmed people of any color are still capable of killing people. If he attacked the cop he got what he asked for. If he did not than the officer had no right to shoot him. Most of what I have heard and seen of this case leans on the side that the officer was attacked. Ultimately I was not there when it happened and do not know.

 

[Einherjar86]

And my point(s) is that:

Challenging an officers actions doesn't mean assaulting them.

If I had typed challenging or disagreeing with, then yes I'd agree with your statement.

Officers often "misconstrue" challenges as assaults.

The police are human and are not perfect. No they do not have the unquestionable right to use lethal force. That's why it is questioned every time they do.

Every other individual does have the right to use lethal force and it's called self-defense.

Unless one is defending oneself against a police officer; and especially if a black man is defending himself against a police officer.

Now I haven't followed this case very much at all and I don't know what evidence was collected, but unarmed people of any color are still capable of killing people. If he attacked the cop he got what he asked for. If he did not than the officer had no right to shoot him. Most of what I have heard and seen of this case leans on the side that the officer was attacked. Ultimately I was not there when it happened and do not know.

None of us can truly understand what it feels like to be a black man targeted/tailed/questioned by the police, and we cannot treat this case as though it happened in a vacuum. The dynamics of the case go beyond the officer and the victim; they extend to the perception of race and its systematic handling by the media. According to the cultural "logic" of race relations (which, ironically, are not logical), officers are overwhelmingly granted the benefit of the doubt and black males are treated as suspicious and deserving criminals.

 

[Tonka Time]

I agree with your point(s). The world is not a perfect place. Those that are in positions of power and authority are not without human flaws.

I feel that race issues always get blown out of proportion. I don't believe racism is as big of a problem as the media makes it out to be.

 

[Matt]

I feel that race issues always get blown out of proportion. I don't believe racism is as big of a problem as the media makes it out to be.

This is just not true. Do you ever read any of the comments people make online about these issues? Racism on both sides is still a huge problem.

 

[Jimmy... Dead.]

Guy annoys the shit out of me sometimes but I agree with Stefan here

 

[Tonka Time]

This is just not true. Do you ever read any of the comments people make online about these issues? Racism on both sides is still a huge problem.

True, I have read quite a few comments online that display racism on both sides.

 

[Mort Divine]

I agree with your point(s). The world is not a perfect place. Those that are in positions of power and authority are not without human flaws.

I feel that race issues always get blown out of proportion. I don't believe racism is as big of a problem as the media makes it out to be.

Of course you don't. As a presumably white individual you don't experience it like blacks, Latinos and other racial minorities do.

 

[Tonka Time]

Of course you don't. As a presumably white individual you don't experience it like blacks, Latinos and other racial minorities do.

So all cops are racist and target people because of their skin color?

Yes, racism is a problem and one that is probably bigger than I feel it is. No, I can never experience it the way someone of a different color does. I still feel that it is blown out of proportion by the media.

 

[Matt]

The 24 hour media cycle exacerbates a number of issues, including race relations.

 

[Dak]

Of course you don't. As a presumably white individual you don't experience it like blacks, Latinos and other racial minorities do.

Yeah, minorities tremble to set foot in any SWPL location, for fear of the local population of Morts fawning over them.

I get it though, minorities can't even walk down the middle of the street without them goddamn racists telling them to get off the street like some damn fascist, cause racism.

 

[Tonka Time]

Sitting here waiting to read "CHECK YOUR PRIVILEGE!!!1111"

 

[Krow]

Thats what Mort's gravestone will read.

 

[MasterOLightning]

It's one thing to look at racism as product of the way people feel, and another to see it as the way a society functions.

We don't have lynchings and segregation anymore. That doesn't mean that the legacy of racism isn't felt. White people act like being afraid to say the N word equals the end of racism. There's no clean slate for black people born today. They are still at a systematic disadvantage in just about every respect. Shit like redlining has a profound generational impact. Or look at the consequences for a drug arrest for white vs. black. That's racism. It's not about name calling and water fountains and it never was. Too many people think that things are fixed because the most obvious visual cues were eliminated.

 

[Baroque]

Obviously this dude shouldn't have attacked a police officer, real idiot move. But I see a lot of people trying to rationalize his death because of the crimes he committed. I'm sorry but theft, unarmed aggravated assault, and being under the influence, none of these crimes are punishable by death. This cop was judge jury and executioner when physical but not deadly force could have settled this scenario.

As far as the rioters, they need to prosecute every last one of them who looted and burned buildings, they're all caught on camera. They should serve jail time and collectively have to pay for the damages.. but I doubt this will happen.

 

[Einherjar86]

It's one thing to look at racism as product of the way people feel, and another to see it as the way a society functions.

We don't have lynchings and segregation anymore. That doesn't mean that the legacy of racism isn't felt. White people act like being afraid to say the N word equals the end of racism. There's no clean slate for black people born today. They are still at a systematic disadvantage in just about every respect. Shit like redlining has a profound generational impact. Or look at the consequences for a drug arrest for white vs. black. That's racism. It's not about name calling and water fountains and it never was. Too many people think that things are fixed because the most obvious visual cues were eliminated.

Everyone needs to read and think seriously about this post. Spot on.

 

[Jimmy... Dead.]

and I don't think anyone really disagrees with most of that but every situation is unique and in this particular case I think the evidence shows the officer did what he had to do to protect himself.

 

[Einherjar86]

Maybe so, but no one is asking why a young black teenager felt the need to assault a police officer; he must have either been stupid, or insane, or high on drugs. This is the extent of the story as it has been covered by the media, and I find it frustrating that people think the media is responsible for injecting race into this situation and that its racial inflections would be absent if the media left it alone.

The only account of race that the media is interested in is the superficial one: that is, was the officer acting on a racist belief or disposition when he shot the victim; and if not, then was the victim a tweeker thug. This is totally beside the point, and merely provides firepower for the conservative right to criticize race issues as superfluous and not truly present. The element of race is behind the scenes, informing the fact that the victim felt the need to attack a police officer; it's in the pursuit of the case by the prosecutor, and in the response to the case by the media, which has to see blacks as either poor subjects or opportunistic thieves.

The true propaganda of the media lies in its obscuring of how racism actually operates in this country; but no one is ever interested in talking about this, Al Sharpton included. People simply want to believe that the case is closed when Officer Wilson is either indicted, or not.

 

[Carpe Mortem]

A part of my stance stems from having been helped by many black and white police officers, and it seems that many people forget there are black cops busting white criminals all the time. Racial issues appear to be present on both sides, and I'm sure that kid wouldn't have acted nearly as foolishly if the officer was someone of his own color.

 

[Dak]

There's no clean slate for black people born today. They are still at a systematic disadvantage in just about every respect.

There are never any "clean slates", and standing around either complaining about it or reinforcing any given stereotype is only going to perpetuate that disadvantage. Taking ownership is the only real solution, how "fair" it is doesn't even enter into any serious conversation.

 

[Tonka Time]

There are never any "clean slates", and standing around either complaining about it or reinforcing any given stereotype is only going to perpetuate that disadvantage. Taking ownership is the only real solution, how "fair" it is doesn't even enter into any serious conversation.

This.

Also, any comment that has "White people do/don't..." or "Black people do/don't..." is racist.
If people claim to want racism to end then they should stop lumping all people of any color into a group and look at people as individuals.
People of all races experience racism.

As for the Ferguson case, a kid decided to attack an officer and an officer decided to use lethal force(If you're questioning this then you must have access to evidence that the court didn't. No the justice system isn't perfect, quite the opposite, but believing that the entire system is out to get people of different color is false especially when the justice system isn't made up of one race). The kid is dead and the officer's life is ruined.