The pics thread
- Thread starter Ender Rises
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Baroque
Active Member
That's not happening though, unless we have some sort of authoritarian population control. Also part of the nature of capitalism is that it consumes excess resources and produces excess waste.
Internally Deformed
Farseer of the Paranormal Abysm
Yeah, I agree with all that. I also think we have more chance of replacing capitalism with a saner system/reducing the population than we have of creating a space program capable of transporting a significant portion of the population over interstellar distances. In either case the chance is pretty slim.
Dak
mentat
Capitalism has in itself contributed to population control once a certain level of affluency is achieved. Pretty much everywhere but a few heavily Muslim, economically backwards countries are at replacement fertility levels or lower. If affluent countries would cut out the child based gimmedats those already low fertility rates would crater.
Internally Deformed
Farseer of the Paranormal Abysm
Capitalism leads to excessive consumption, and relies upon continual growth though (economic rather than population). True birth rates would be lower if everyone had a first world standard of living, but it's also true that the earth couldn't actually sustain the levels of consumption that would accompany that.
Dak
mentat
Internally Deformed
Farseer of the Paranormal Abysm
Debt doesn't help, but increasing consumption is hardwired into capitalism too. Higher demand and a larger market are in the interest of every business, so it stands to reason they'd take every step necessary to bring them about. I'll believe in a steady-state economy when I see it.
Baroque
Active Member
Mars is not interstellar to stay on point.
To get off point we don't need to transport a significant portion of humans for interstellar travel just an elite diverse few and perhaps the sperm and eggs of others for further genetic diversity. The elite crew and their children can maintain the ship during travel. Why transport a huge population that would be dead and replaced by the time they get there.
Yeah I think we need to replace capitalism eventually though for a more civil system. How to instill a desire for personal growth in people without monetary gains though? It would have to be based on mutual benefits or authoritarian I imagine.
Internally Deformed
Farseer of the Paranormal Abysm
No, but transporting people to Mars serves no real purpose as maintaining human life there would probably be even more challenging than maintaining it on an apocalypse ravaged earth. Not that I'm against exploring Mars for reasons of expanding scientific knowledge, I just think it serves no practical purpose with regards to your point about the human race being wiped out.
As to transporting an elite diverse few + sperm/eggs, I see no reason at all my taxes should have to pay for that (not that my taxes do go to NASA, but you take my point). If we're talking about billions of people stranded on a dying earth, knowing that some other arseholes are going to survive somewhere else would probably be more of a source of aggravation than a comfort.
CiG
Harbinger of Metal
Anything you replace capitalism with will be worse by definition for basic human rights. This is the communism problem all over again. People have a basic instinct to buy things that improve their life in both objective and subjective ways ("better" house and "tastier" food) and what will you create that facilitates that basic instinct?
If anything it will just be a different version of capitalism.
If anything it will just be a different version of capitalism.
Baroque
Active Member
It possibly won't be long before capitalist space enterprises take the reigns. Space X is on the rise and they're already a major workhorse for NASA.
If that's the case, only the rich will be on that ship instead of the elite, and likely not even the sperm/eggs of the rest of us. Would you prefer that scenario to paying for it through taxes?
The Ozzman
Melted by feels
I'm saying they should work on warp drive or some shit
Baroque
Active Member
Mars is our proof of concept for planetary exploration. After this rover (which is filling in some science questions like what are the internals of Mars, are there Marsquakes?), there will be a soil sample return mission to teach us for sure what resources are present (how much water??). After that we will land humans on Mars. Then it's game on to explore other planets. We don't need a warp drive to get to our first planet, and it would break the laws of physics as we currently know them anyhow.
We are working on multiple things simultaneously btw, (including spacecraft engine/fuel alternatives) with a severely limiting budget. Our adjusted budget is less than half of what it was during the moon landing missions.
The Ozzman
Melted by feels
Baroque
Active Member
The NASA budget has been in slow decline ever since like 1968 dude
CiG
Harbinger of Metal
The Ozzman
Melted by feels
CiG
Harbinger of Metal
Internally Deformed
Farseer of the Paranormal Abysm
There are all sorts of things people want, and I agree that sufficient food, comfortable housing and competent healthcare would be constant requirements whichever type of society came into being. Where I take issue with capitalism is the idea that having more of everything - more food, bigger houses, faster cars, better entertainment, etc etc - actually improves people's lives, which is pretty easy to prove wrong seeing as extremely rich people tend not to be any happier than people who simply have enough to meet their needs.
There are two problems with communism IMO, the first being that it is a revolutionary ideology. Revolutions tend to only come about in a climate of unrest and when the old system is FUBAR, which isn't really the best situation in which to establish a new type of society. The second is that selfless allegiance to the state or collective isn't a particularly effective motivator for individual action. Luckily it isn't the 19th century any more, and we aren't presented with a stark choice between that and capitalism.
Internally Deformed
Farseer of the Paranormal Abysm
Either way I doubt they'll invite me along, so they can pay for it their damn selves.
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