The "Satanism" Thread

[Kenneth R.]

LaVey's general message is "do what you want and stop anyone who tries to stop you" which seems unfruitful to me in the long run. not very well thought out.

 

[infoterror]

LaVey's general message is "do what you want and stop anyone who tries to stop you" which seems unfruitful to me in the long run. not very well thought out.

Agreed, and it's intentional slander of the postmoralist message.

The postmoralist (nihilist) message is that there can be no absolute law. It doesn't mean "do whatever you want," unless "want" is a carefully constructed term.

LaVey was an idiot Jew, however, and Judaism is a sick religion for Europeans to pursue. It works OK only in Israel, I guess.

 

[RideForVengance]

What I'm wondering is how many Satanists believe in god? It may sound stupid, but think about it from this perspective. Satan is a character in the bible, in my oppinion a fictual character created by christianity to serve as the "bad guy" in their story. So it really makes no sense to think christianity is a lie, or to not believe in god but to believe in satan as he is in christianity. The kind of Satanism some people talk about, man in his carnal form, or our inner devil, what LaVey wrote about seems to make a little more sense.

 

[EphelDuath]

Anyone who would actually name their child "Satan Xerxes LaVey" is clearly an idiot and should not be taken seriously.

 

[swizzlenuts]

What I'm wondering is how many Satanists believe in god? It may sound stupid, but think about it from this perspective. Satan is a character in the bible, in my oppinion a fictual character created by christianity to serve as the "bad guy" in their story. So it really makes no sense to think christianity is a lie, or to not believe in god but to believe in satan as he is in christianity. The kind of Satanism some people talk about, man in his carnal form, or our inner devil, what LaVey wrote about seems to make a little more sense.

There are satanists that believe in the whole christian devil thing... they just beleive that when eternity is here... satan will win the war.... its for the people who cant really think... and are stupid... and this is the easiest thing to believe... more the hollywood satanism... but people actually believe it...

doesnt make sence to me

 

[KingsEvilScreamer]

I've read the Satanic Bible, and I got the same message. Do what you feel like doing and dont let anything else hold you back. It seems a little trite to write an entire "Bible" based on this. It doesn't seem like a real religion. It's just a fancy form of atheism. There also seemed to be quite a bit of cliche "Satan worshipping" rhetoric in the book, that really held no merit. Like, the section on magic. It's all persuasion. It also lacked the key element of EVERY organized religion ever formed, and that is balance. If you look at any religion ever formed, they all either preach balance, or show a form of balance. Hence God and the Devil. You cant have one without the other.

 

[Valgeir]

I took on the label of "Satanist" for a while because of its novelty value, but went back to atheist/agnostic pretty quickly. It doesn't take a brilliant person to figure out LaVey was a charlatan. He charged $200 US for membership to his church that believes nothing, does nothing and has no purpose.

 

[KingsEvilScreamer]

I took on the label of "Satanist" for a while because of its novelty value, but went back to atheist/agnostic pretty quickly. It doesn't take a brilliant person to figure out LaVey was a charlatan. He charged $200 US for membership to his church that believes nothing, does nothing and has no purpose.

He really charged that much for membership in the Church of Satan? That's ridiculous. That's like paying dues for an Atheist group collective. That really doesn't make him any better than the televagelists.

 

[Dushan S]

Well most people that are "Satanists" I got to know were morons, they had no clue what are they talking about. On the other hand, it is normal, because most of people I met that are really into Christianity were idiots.

First it is hard to get serious religion that is based on being just a mirror image of Christian morality and values. This is case with classic view at Satanism. More progressive Satanists are claming something else, but you can find all that in eastern philosophies, tantra, etc, they got it from there. Even Thelema was not original at all, if you think a little bit.

Finally you should have in mind that image of Satan is made of old gods, divinities of old religions that Christianity was trying to destroy. God Set, Pan (god of with goat legs, I am not sure how he is called in English), Baphomet, and others were mixed up in today’s devils image, and everything that was connected with free will, passion, and sexuality was connected with that "evil" figure by Christian church. It is easy to understand that devil that Christ was talking about was something else, a part of his own personality, will for power, wish to control, etc, and it is quite common story in all religions, temptations of men that has to become go alike, it has no connection with some kind of outer evil entity.

Also have in mind that Lucifer means a "Lightbringer", Prometheus, one that is condemned by gods for helping humans. And that in some early Christian teachings Old Testament god is actually a devil, evil god “demiurge” that is keeping human beings in prison, and that there is a higher "true" god that is god Jesus was telling about as a "father". In those teachings, Jesus himself was a light bringer, destroyed by evil god represented in priests of old religion, but he gave us light, in form of way to liberate ourselves from the power of “demiurge” by following his path.

So technically, looking from that point, and having in mind how many people have died and suffered in the name of the today’s Christian church as it is today historically, so it can have more gold and power, and if you pay attention that historically its most important values were again power and control in every possible way, you could say that most important service of devil himself on this planet is organized mass religion.

 

[Kenneth R.]

very interesting perspective and word choice... especially given the book i am currently reading, your above post really applies in a way i didn't think of.

 

[Dushan S]

And what is the name of book you are reading? Something interesting?

 

[Silver Incubus]

Well most people that are "Satanists" I got to know were morons, they had no clue what are they talking about. On the other hand, it is normal, because most of people I met that are really into Christianity were idiots.

First it is hard to get serious religion that is based on being just a mirror image of Christian morality and values. This is case with classic view at Satanism. More progressive Satanists are claming something else, but you can find all that in eastern philosophies, tantra, etc, they got it from there. Even Thelema was not original at all, if you think a little bit.

Finally you should have in mind that image of Satan is made of old gods, divinities of old religions that Christianity was trying to destroy. God Set, Pan (god of with goat legs, I am not sure how he is called in English), Baphomet, and others were mixed up in today’s devils image, and everything that was connected with free will, passion, and sexuality was connected with that "evil" figure by Christian church. It is easy to understand that devil that Christ was talking about was something else, a part of his own personality, will for power, wish to control, etc, and it is quite common story in all religions, temptations of men that has to become go alike, it has no connection with some kind of outer evil entity.

Also have in mind that Lucifer means a "Lightbringer", Prometheus, one that is condemned by gods for helping humans. And that in some early Christian teachings Old Testament god is actually a devil, evil god “demiurge” that is keeping human beings in prison, and that there is a higher "true" god that is god Jesus was telling about as a "father". In those teachings, Jesus himself was a light bringer, destroyed by evil god represented in priests of old religion, but he gave us light, in form of way to liberate ourselves from the power of “demiurge” by following his path.

So technically, looking from that point, and having in mind how many people have died and suffered in the name of the today’s Christian church as it is today historically, so it can have more gold and power, and if you pay attention that historically its most important values were again power and control in every possible way, you could say that most important service of devil himself on this planet is organized mass religion.

Yeah I thought that for years. Organized Religion is evil, plain and simple. Faith in something, is personal, and is not dictated(or shouldn't be). How much money does the vatican have? TOO MUCH

With any knowledge of previous religions, it is easy to see where christianity stole concepts, figures and even stories. I the idea of heaven and hell, and even judgement was used by the egyptians before christianity was even around. Im sure the Jews stole it from them.

 

[Kenneth R.]

And what is the name of book you are reading? Something interesting?

George R R Martin - A Song of Ice and Fire &
Gene Wolfe - The Book of the New Sun.

both fiction... but no less interesting.

 

[RookParliament]

George R R Martin - A Song of Ice and Fire QUOTE]
I don't know how far you've gotten into the series, but I'll be interested in your take on the um... God of Light?... that the Red Priest/Priestesses worship. If you're still early in the series the Red Priests take on a huge role later on.

 

[Kenneth R.]

i have read all 3 currently published books. (minor spoilers below)

based on certain hints (one even revealed in this forum), it would seem that Rh'Lohr (or however it's spelled) is not really representative of any real world deity in exact, but as someone here pointed out- the red sword of heroes "lightbringer" translates to "lucifer". that seems compelling by itself, but also the theme of fire, shadows, and a duality of deities in constant contest for the universe. coupled with ressurrection, i would say the "red god" might loosely resemble the devil. Martin rarely pulls from inspiration overtly. the Seven (as aspects of one) remind me of the Christian trinity, and the nature of the nameless old gods as well, since they have no names. i would say that Martin took aspects of many religions and re-sorted them to create his own. i can't at this point say which is "good" or "bad" if any at all.

 

[RookParliament]

i have read all 3 currently published books. (minor spoilers below)

based on certain hints (one even revealed in this forum), it would seem that Rh'Lohr (or however it's spelled) is not really representative of any real world deity in exact, but as someone here pointed out- the red sword of heroes "lightbringer" translates to "lucifer". that seems compelling by itself, but also the theme of fire, shadows, and a duality of deities in constant contest for the universe. coupled with ressurrection, i would say the "red god" might loosely resemble the devil. Martin rarely pulls from inspiration overtly. the Seven (as aspects of one) remind me of the Christian trinity, and the nature of the nameless old gods as well, since they have no names. i would say that Martin took aspects of many religions and re-sorted them to create his own. i can't at this point say which is "good" or "bad" if any at all.

I think that Rh'Lohr is a representation of the One God of Christianity combined with Ahuramazda of the Zoroastran mythos, or he closely resembles the two anyway. He is a god of light and fire, he is portrayed as goodly, has the power of resurrection through his priests and looks to be posed to sweep Westeros with his worship. I like how Martin doesn't make overt gesture of the Rh'Lohr's power, because for all we know the powers could just be the ability of the priests. Of course as you said there is no direct approximation. I would not say the Seven are based on the Trinity as much as on many faiths past and present that have a "Many as One" view of their deities. The nameless old gods have a correlation to the old Druid tradition I would say. I would absolutely agree with you on not being able to tell which is good or bad. I love how MArtin has created a world not peopled with Tolkienesqe shallow archetypes, but with characters who are all complex and seemingly believable as real people. Hell he's gotten us to descend into something bordering on geek-talk if not already there. Looking forward to the next volume.

 

[Kenneth R.]

and i as well. i just didn't see much correlation between the Red god and my God. initially, i was sure that was the intended correlation, but as the story progressed, i have changed my opinion. but of course, who knows. the story isn't half over yet.

 

[RookParliament]

and i as well. i just didn't see much correlation between the Red god and my God. initially, i was sure that was the intended correlation, but as the story progressed, i have changed my opinion. but of course, who knows. the story isn't half over yet.

Check out Persian mythology though. There are only two deities. Ahura Mazda, the God of Light, and Ahriman the God of Darkness. When the Zoroastrianism came to be popular all the old gods were cast down as demons called devas, which I think is the root of devil. Some similarities to the series.

 

[Kenneth R.]

if he based it on that, then yes clearly that makes sense. i'm just not so sure this 'lord of light' is on the far side of the spectrum that i initially thought. he's the god of light and shadows which are cast by light. an interesting twist.

 

[RookParliament]

if he based it on that, then yes clearly that makes sense. i'm just not so sure this 'lord of light' is on the far side of the spectrum that i initially thought. he's the god of light and shadows which are cast by light. an interesting twist.

Definetly