The scene
- Thread starter Destrruction
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Grevén
Grillat är godast!
Gums
sweet bitching
judging by the 
face in the subject, i take it you aren't happy with it?
well, i dunno, i guess the "good ol' days" will always be better, but i'm pretty content with the scene overall
face in the subject, i take it you aren't happy with it? well, i dunno, i guess the "good ol' days" will always be better, but i'm pretty content with the scene overall
BellaNoche
Member
Meh, the scene is alright around here. Its actually not bad when I really think about it. We have alot of hardcore metal heads around here. At least alot of my friends are.
I think that the scene is overpopulated with both labels and bands.
The problem is just that it's both good and bad... mmm...
The problem is just that it's both good and bad... mmm...
Final_Vision
This is Not an Exit
It depends how you look at it. The mainstream metal scene is pretty crappy as usual. You've got some decent bands like Killswitch and Shadows Fall becoming quite popular but than you've got numerous faceless shitty metalcore bands that are becoming popular.
As far as the metal scene where I look at it...its not bad. Not amazing because I've found myself looking at back catalogs a lot lately. There are definitly bands I still look forward to seeing release albums, Skyfire being one of them
As far as the metal scene where I look at it...its not bad. Not amazing because I've found myself looking at back catalogs a lot lately. There are definitly bands I still look forward to seeing release albums, Skyfire being one of them
It hasn't changed a great deal since I've involved myself in it, but from what I could tell, it could be better, and it could be much, much worse.
Like Henrik said, there's a serious oversaturation of the whole scene. This has good points and bad points; on one hand there are lots of bands for us to listen to, but on the other hand the whole scene is spread thin. In the mid 90's, Earache went into their weird techno phase and pretty much stopped signing the death metal bands that put them on the map to begin with, mostly because Digby Pearson lost interest as a result of pretty much all the bands sounding basically the same.
Now, what we're referring to here, the whole metal scene in general, is much more complicated than the death metal scene 10 years ago - there are many different styles and it can certainly not be said that Blind Guardian sounds like Anaal Nathrakh. But of those hundreds of thousands of bands, how many are doing something new, and of those, how many are able to get their name out among the other masses of bands?
I read in a recent interview with Varg that in the beginning of the whole Norwegian black metal scene, they all tried as hard as they could to be something different. Euronymous called Darkthrone and Burzum black metal bands and the label stuck, but then Immortal was "Holocaust Metal" and they chose their cold/ice/tundra/winter lyrical theme partially due to the fact that Satanism and Norse mythology and stuff were already taken. It wasn't until the scene got too exposed to the media and people wanted a piece of that that everything was being referred to as black metal (or so I understood from the interview) and until then, everything was totally original. Varg went on to inquire as to why anyone would want to create the same music that someone else already had (and that if he picks up music again when he gets out of his cell it wouldn't be metal at all because it's already been done and is being done now).
On the other side of the metal world is the above-ground, if you will; the MTV metal bands. This scene's been getting a little better as of recent, like Final_Vision said. There are actual decent bands out there now, and bands like Limp Bizkit's popularity is continually waning. Slipknot still retains their poularity, but they're not abusing it like they could and they are putting actual thought into their music now. Though I think there's still a long way to go before we can walk into a Hot Topic and buy a Biomechanical CD or turn on VH1 to watch a Behemoth video.
I had a good point, I swear. Maybe I'll think of it later.
Like Henrik said, there's a serious oversaturation of the whole scene. This has good points and bad points; on one hand there are lots of bands for us to listen to, but on the other hand the whole scene is spread thin. In the mid 90's, Earache went into their weird techno phase and pretty much stopped signing the death metal bands that put them on the map to begin with, mostly because Digby Pearson lost interest as a result of pretty much all the bands sounding basically the same.
Now, what we're referring to here, the whole metal scene in general, is much more complicated than the death metal scene 10 years ago - there are many different styles and it can certainly not be said that Blind Guardian sounds like Anaal Nathrakh. But of those hundreds of thousands of bands, how many are doing something new, and of those, how many are able to get their name out among the other masses of bands?
I read in a recent interview with Varg that in the beginning of the whole Norwegian black metal scene, they all tried as hard as they could to be something different. Euronymous called Darkthrone and Burzum black metal bands and the label stuck, but then Immortal was "Holocaust Metal" and they chose their cold/ice/tundra/winter lyrical theme partially due to the fact that Satanism and Norse mythology and stuff were already taken. It wasn't until the scene got too exposed to the media and people wanted a piece of that that everything was being referred to as black metal (or so I understood from the interview) and until then, everything was totally original. Varg went on to inquire as to why anyone would want to create the same music that someone else already had (and that if he picks up music again when he gets out of his cell it wouldn't be metal at all because it's already been done and is being done now).
On the other side of the metal world is the above-ground, if you will; the MTV metal bands. This scene's been getting a little better as of recent, like Final_Vision said. There are actual decent bands out there now, and bands like Limp Bizkit's popularity is continually waning. Slipknot still retains their poularity, but they're not abusing it like they could and they are putting actual thought into their music now. Though I think there's still a long way to go before we can walk into a Hot Topic and buy a Biomechanical CD or turn on VH1 to watch a Behemoth video.
I had a good point, I swear. Maybe I'll think of it later.
opacity
Member
too many musicians and too few fans
everyone wants to be at least a local hero and thus some kind of envy (sometimes not to oversee, sometimes it's more of a positive challenging kind) is all around.
everyone wants to be at least a local hero and thus some kind of envy (sometimes not to oversee, sometimes it's more of a positive challenging kind) is all around.
Final_Vision
This is Not an Exit
Way too many bands copying other bands, originality is dying in way. Too many metalcore bands trying to sound like At the Gates and too many bands creating bad Children of Bodom clones.
SpiritCrusherX
ManBearPig
I'm pretty content with the metal scene right now, but there are a few things that bother me, most of which were already mentioned.
For one thing, as Final Vision said, there are WAY too many generic metalcore bands playing watered down melodic death metal. Only certain bands can execute that style well enough to make it interesting. Unearth is one such example. "The Oncoming Storm" was one of my favorite albums this year.
On a similar note, there are simply too many bands that sound alike. Very few acually grab my attention anymore. I can get into a band regardless of their magnitude of originality, but I end up losing interest in most of them after a few listens.
One positive thing about the metal scene today is that nu metal's popularity has waned massively. But then again the trade off for that is the metalcore saturation.
This wasn't really asked of the original poster, but I think that the three best bands in metal right now are Shadows Fall, Children Of Bodom, and Into Eternity. Into Eternity is the most refreshing to hear because they are traditional enough to placate metal purists but also unique enough so that the listener does not get bored quickly. Bodom's excellence is obvious, and Shadows Fall just put out an amazing album that continues their balance between metal, hardcore, and rock.
Has anyone ever heard of the band The Red Death? They're basically your average metalcore band from western New York. My band played with them awhile ago, and they're good guys. They signed with Metal Blade recently. But when MY BAND sent a CD to Metal Blade they said that we were not what they were looking for at the moment (although they thought the material was strong). I just don't get it. Now, my band's music isn't incredibly original, but we have received nothing but favorable reviews. I just don't understand how they will sign some generic metalcore band but not us. I'm not trying to blow steam (I'm always modest), I'm just trying to illustrate a point.
I dunno. Fuck metalcore unless it's Unearth basically, haha.
For one thing, as Final Vision said, there are WAY too many generic metalcore bands playing watered down melodic death metal. Only certain bands can execute that style well enough to make it interesting. Unearth is one such example. "The Oncoming Storm" was one of my favorite albums this year.
On a similar note, there are simply too many bands that sound alike. Very few acually grab my attention anymore. I can get into a band regardless of their magnitude of originality, but I end up losing interest in most of them after a few listens.
One positive thing about the metal scene today is that nu metal's popularity has waned massively. But then again the trade off for that is the metalcore saturation.
This wasn't really asked of the original poster, but I think that the three best bands in metal right now are Shadows Fall, Children Of Bodom, and Into Eternity. Into Eternity is the most refreshing to hear because they are traditional enough to placate metal purists but also unique enough so that the listener does not get bored quickly. Bodom's excellence is obvious, and Shadows Fall just put out an amazing album that continues their balance between metal, hardcore, and rock.
Has anyone ever heard of the band The Red Death? They're basically your average metalcore band from western New York. My band played with them awhile ago, and they're good guys. They signed with Metal Blade recently. But when MY BAND sent a CD to Metal Blade they said that we were not what they were looking for at the moment (although they thought the material was strong). I just don't get it. Now, my band's music isn't incredibly original, but we have received nothing but favorable reviews. I just don't understand how they will sign some generic metalcore band but not us. I'm not trying to blow steam (I'm always modest), I'm just trying to illustrate a point.
I dunno. Fuck metalcore unless it's Unearth basically, haha.
stefan86
invariably off-topic
There's a lot of shit music, and then there's some good music. One thing I can say is that I'm so terribly sick of those bands who play "metal" without actually having any metal influences, mainly today's Gothenburg, other overly melodic stuff and a lot of metalcore. Soilwork seems like the prime example, releasing 2-3 albums of totally synthetic music that sounds like crap actually played. Some bands can however get away with it if there's only a moderate non-extreme metalness. Dark Tranquillity, Callenish Circle and Skyfire are quite enjoyable for me despite being a bit too non-extreme. Shadows Fall are quite a memorable band when they really get their stuff together as well.
There's still some rejoice in all this. The new Kreator album is certainly damn good. Most of Gothenburg influence from "Violent Revolution" is even gone and there's a whole lot of actual thrash riffs. I'm hoping for some really good albums in 2005. New Testament will certainly be a treat. I know there will some obvious disappointments though. Dissection comes to mind as one.
There's still some rejoice in all this. The new Kreator album is certainly damn good. Most of Gothenburg influence from "Violent Revolution" is even gone and there's a whole lot of actual thrash riffs. I'm hoping for some really good albums in 2005. New Testament will certainly be a treat. I know there will some obvious disappointments though. Dissection comes to mind as one.
IcedEarth556
Metal Keyboardist
What are some examples of all these metalcore bands everyone hates? I don't know if anyone has heard of Dead To Fall but they are a pretty good metalcore band.
stefan86
invariably off-topic
It's not so much the bands and musicians that are bad, at least not in playing capability. It's rather the fact that too much -core and Gothenburg influence waters down bands. There are a lot of bands that blend for example thrash and hardcore that would do better with more "real" influence from thrash. Carnal Forge used to be one of those bands who did it well, at least in their early days. They used to have a whole lot of killer riffs and most of their Gothenburg-ones sounded like At The Gates on übercrack (the best version of Gothenburgriffs). Now they've gotten a bit boring compared to their first 2 CDs thanks to more influence from the less intense bands. Well, that's my take on it.
Destrruction said:
I dont know what i think about the scene today, but i guess it changes from "day to day" and thats just the way it is. The thing that bothers me the most is that i think that the metalscene will probably soon start to degenerate and skyfire and all the other bands that arent that famous will follow. Im basing my facts on our talks with our labels and people we´ve met on the road. dont get me wrong though, im not blaming anyone.
Everyone i know is downloading music from the internet and im doing it as well.I think its great in a way but sad at the same time. its to expensive to buy all the new albums you like (here in sweden anyway) so why not download. But i put my money on that we will maybe record 1 or 2 albums with a normal cd budget in the future but after that, if we dont get famous ( children between 14 and 16 are the real deal in sweden if u want to sell albums) or get a deal with a big label, we´re screwed. =)
SpiritCrusherX
ManBearPig
We played with Dead To Fall once, they're good guys and a pretty good band. All That Remains is really good too. There are a lot of bands that are just generic even though they may write killer riffs and have good musicians. One such example is It Dies Today. While they're strong musically, it's been done so many times before.IcedEarth556 said:
opacity
Member
so young age?MC Hanner said:
i mean how's that possible that a band depends on kids whose own existance is financed by and dependent on someone else (parents,...)?
that's a sick world
Well, you just described the demographics of most of the really big bands/musicians to come into existance after 1990. I know my 7-year old cousin doesn't pay for her Britney Spears albums on her own. Though I will say you can find a disturbing amount of grown men in Linkin Park merchandise at the mall around here.opacity said:so young age?
i mean how's that possible that a band depends on kids whose own existance is financed by and dependent on someone else (parents,...)?
that's a sick world
Infernium
Unohduksen Lapsi
I think melodeath is losing it's footstep in the genre; the leader veterans of melodeath: In Flames and Children Of Bodom have both gone more hardcore and nu-metal. We still have Soilwork and Dark Tranquilly but as i have checked out their new releases i do not see them making the situation much better, alltho it is of course a matter of taste. The only melodeath bands that still have intresting way of doing their things for me are Insomnium and Kalmah (sorry to say, but after greatness of Timeless Departure, Skyfire has gone much more basic melodeath style and less unicue) I think melodeath has quite much gave what it has to give.
I also believe that Black Metal's future will not be too much better. Like it or not, black metal has always succeeded atleast partly by the power of shock value. After tens of years of bm the world has changed enough for antichristiany or satanism not to shock anyone anymore. Also bm has always has extremely tight limits of developement. Dimmu Borgir did their best trying to refresh the sound with orchestra, but i dont see Death Cult Armageddon a succes enought to do a big difference. I think black metal will excist a lot longer than most for its very strong, yet maybe not too large fanbase.
Then what do we have to fill the hole? I think, or atleast strongly hope to see viking/folkish metal rise up even more than it has for few past years. Followers of Bathory; Moonsorrow, Ensiferum, Finntroll, Thyrfing, Turisas and many others have really gave us a new a lot more powerfull meaning for folkish metal. Also doom/death as a subgenre has been looking very promising to me.
In general i think metal is fine and growing day by day, yet also letting new styles and genres to get their part too. Development is the key of continuation and expanding. Its good to see new faces in the genre. It will be very intresting to see when we will have our first metal bands breaking up records and being popular within every types of popularity, maybe never but the time will tell. Stay metal!
I also believe that Black Metal's future will not be too much better. Like it or not, black metal has always succeeded atleast partly by the power of shock value. After tens of years of bm the world has changed enough for antichristiany or satanism not to shock anyone anymore. Also bm has always has extremely tight limits of developement. Dimmu Borgir did their best trying to refresh the sound with orchestra, but i dont see Death Cult Armageddon a succes enought to do a big difference. I think black metal will excist a lot longer than most for its very strong, yet maybe not too large fanbase.
Then what do we have to fill the hole? I think, or atleast strongly hope to see viking/folkish metal rise up even more than it has for few past years. Followers of Bathory; Moonsorrow, Ensiferum, Finntroll, Thyrfing, Turisas and many others have really gave us a new a lot more powerfull meaning for folkish metal. Also doom/death as a subgenre has been looking very promising to me.
In general i think metal is fine and growing day by day, yet also letting new styles and genres to get their part too. Development is the key of continuation and expanding. Its good to see new faces in the genre. It will be very intresting to see when we will have our first metal bands breaking up records and being popular within every types of popularity, maybe never but the time will tell. Stay metal!
stefan86
invariably off-topic
I think comparing Skyfire to the rest of the melodic metal stuff is quite interesting. In my opinion they certainly have a lot of things that raises them above pretty much every one of those bands. The progmetal-influences as well as the very harsh vocals make them so much more musically intense.
I disagree with Infernium. Though I do agree that melodeath in general isn't getting any better, I think it's for different reasons. What you said was a problem was that the flagship bands have gone for a more mainstream sound, but I think the real downfall here is the new bands that are doing nothing but rehashing stuff that's already been done (Arise, Shadow... dare I say it? The Duskfall). I'm also not getting how Skyfire can be called generic melodeath if Insomnium isn't, they bored the crap out of me until I deleted their stuff to make more room on my computer. Only a few bands in my opinion have been able to breathe some fresh air in to the genre, including Skyfire, Arsis, Darkane, and Quo Vadis especially, and Kalmah and Imperanon to a lesser degree. I think Stormlord could be thrown in there as well, although they've got a much blacker sound.
I also agree that black metal is on the way down in Norway, but the American scene is very strong. Bands like Xasthur, Judas Iscariot, Leviathan, Absu, etc. have more of a cult status than many of the Norwegian "second-wave" bands. I also don't thank Dimmu and Satyricon for their contributions to black metal's mainstream image. The genre's strength has always been in the underground and it will crumble in the mainstream. Either it will be a passing fad or it will lose all that made it black metal; in the beginning its sole purpose was rebellion. Kind of like punk in the mainstream.
But we'll always have Darkthrone.
You know what we could use? Some new old-school death metal. Where the drummer is the only member with any skill.
I'm not really sure what the future holds for metal; it's getting more and more mainstream and like Martin said, the smaller bands are gonna get weeded out. But the scene has survived that in the past. The only support grindcore had in the beginning was a small fraction of punk fans and metal fans, both sides of which hated the other. As long as there are dedicated musicians there will be metal. I think the newest generation of metalheads (as in the ones just getting into metal recently, like those who are now teenagers) will prove to be a very strong one in terms of metal, given ten or so years. It may go underground for a while, but it'll survive. Musical scenes move in waves. Metal's getting too popular now, just like death metal got in the early 90's. Now death metal has changed drastically since then, but it's still here.
I also agree that black metal is on the way down in Norway, but the American scene is very strong. Bands like Xasthur, Judas Iscariot, Leviathan, Absu, etc. have more of a cult status than many of the Norwegian "second-wave" bands. I also don't thank Dimmu and Satyricon for their contributions to black metal's mainstream image. The genre's strength has always been in the underground and it will crumble in the mainstream. Either it will be a passing fad or it will lose all that made it black metal; in the beginning its sole purpose was rebellion. Kind of like punk in the mainstream.
But we'll always have Darkthrone.
You know what we could use? Some new old-school death metal. Where the drummer is the only member with any skill.
I'm not really sure what the future holds for metal; it's getting more and more mainstream and like Martin said, the smaller bands are gonna get weeded out. But the scene has survived that in the past. The only support grindcore had in the beginning was a small fraction of punk fans and metal fans, both sides of which hated the other. As long as there are dedicated musicians there will be metal. I think the newest generation of metalheads (as in the ones just getting into metal recently, like those who are now teenagers) will prove to be a very strong one in terms of metal, given ten or so years. It may go underground for a while, but it'll survive. Musical scenes move in waves. Metal's getting too popular now, just like death metal got in the early 90's. Now death metal has changed drastically since then, but it's still here.
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