Hey man! a big serious thank you! I don't use AIM, but I will download it and add you. How does it work like? do you have to give me any detail in private, or do I just for "ProjectedBlack" ?
Thomas Lindberg / Dan Swano melodic growls, any hints?
- Thread starter Nostalgiaplatz
- Start date
Hexer
Member
you wont need 5 years to get better at growling, thats just how long I've been doing it so far 
it seems everyone starts like this (me, too) so I really think you'll improve if you practice a bit
it seems everyone starts like this (me, too) so I really think you'll improve if you practice a bit
Hexer
Member
oh, and another thing: you can also shape your growl by moving your mouth and stuff like that. for example:
all the deathmetal-guys with really low growls make that "o" with their lips. you can really change the sound just by moving your mouth. maybe that will also help to improve your sound: really move your mouth when growling!
also looking down (at the floor) will normally make your voice a bit lower since your vocal chords are more relaxed that way, looking up will have the opposite effect
all the deathmetal-guys with really low growls make that "o" with their lips. you can really change the sound just by moving your mouth. maybe that will also help to improve your sound: really move your mouth when growling!
also looking down (at the floor) will normally make your voice a bit lower since your vocal chords are more relaxed that way, looking up will have the opposite effect
ProjectedBlack
Member
Hubster
...
To all,
After reading through the UM Forums for almost 2 years now, I have seen this question pop up many times. The poor person who asks the questions (namely at the Opeth Forum) never gets a decent response.
I myself I wondered many times at a decent growling technique for death and black metal. I'm not a musician really (although I did sing in a band years ago that I used to jam in in university), and have also wanted to know how to achieve this amazing vocal style.
Thanks to everyone in the thread, it's really informative and helpful!
Big cheers,
The Hubster
After reading through the UM Forums for almost 2 years now, I have seen this question pop up many times. The poor person who asks the questions (namely at the Opeth Forum) never gets a decent response.
I myself I wondered many times at a decent growling technique for death and black metal. I'm not a musician really (although I did sing in a band years ago that I used to jam in in university), and have also wanted to know how to achieve this amazing vocal style.
Thanks to everyone in the thread, it's really informative and helpful!
Big cheers,
The Hubster
I am also in search for information about growling, screaming etc. and worked my way through almost every thread i could find. I stumbled over this read-worthy one: http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42294
perhaps someone might consider it useful
perhaps someone might consider it useful
Glad you liked the thread. I too feel it was very worth starting, as a lot of answers provided here are truely helpful to anyone and if I could, I would mod it sticky.
Anyways, I just wanted to point out that there are some things you should never do, if you care about your voice. Drinking Tea with Honey, eating sugar, drinking alcohol (not just beer) smoking and such only help damage your voice! (I smoke too) anything that causes non-natural ressonance of your vocal cords damage it. Anything I mentioned earlier causes your pitch to go lower a bit, because it's as if the cords fatten. If you play guitar, you know the "fat-most" string is the lowest right? that's just accoustic physics. You may argue "But Y musician and X musician do this", just remember though, that the physiognomy of bodies differ from person to person. A person who was born with natural fat vocal cords will probably be able to damage them in this way and still have not a lot of problems in a long period of time, but as with all the things, natural damage occur during cords friction/ressonance. Take care and keep info comming, the few tidbits are never enough
Cheers!
EDIT: I forgot to add, thanks to all who helped
Anyways, I just wanted to point out that there are some things you should never do, if you care about your voice. Drinking Tea with Honey, eating sugar, drinking alcohol (not just beer) smoking and such only help damage your voice! (I smoke too) anything that causes non-natural ressonance of your vocal cords damage it. Anything I mentioned earlier causes your pitch to go lower a bit, because it's as if the cords fatten. If you play guitar, you know the "fat-most" string is the lowest right? that's just accoustic physics. You may argue "But Y musician and X musician do this", just remember though, that the physiognomy of bodies differ from person to person. A person who was born with natural fat vocal cords will probably be able to damage them in this way and still have not a lot of problems in a long period of time, but as with all the things, natural damage occur during cords friction/ressonance. Take care and keep info comming, the few tidbits are never enough
Cheers!
EDIT: I forgot to add, thanks to all who helped
ProjectedBlack
Member
morningstar said:Glad you liked the thread. I too feel it was very worth starting, as a lot of answers provided here are truely helpful to anyone and if I could, I would mod it sticky.
Anyways, I just wanted to point out that there are some things you should never do, if you care about your voice. Drinking Tea with Honey, eating sugar, drinking alcohol (not just beer) smoking and such only help damage your voice! (I smoke too) anything that causes non-natural ressonance of your vocal cords damage it. Anything I mentioned earlier causes your pitch to go lower a bit, because it's as if the cords fatten. If you play guitar, you know the "fat-most" string is the lowest right? that's just accoustic physics. You may argue "But Y musician and X musician do this", just remember though, that the physiognomy of bodies differ from person to person. A person who was born with natural fat vocal cords will probably be able to damage them in this way and still have not a lot of problems in a long period of time, but as with all the things, natural damage occur during cords friction/ressonance. Take care and keep info comming, the few tidbits are never enough
Cheers!
EDIT: I forgot to add, thanks to all who helped
Hah, yeah...I need to stop smoking too. I have a deep voice though and my vocal chords usually take a lot before I lose my voice.
Hey projected black, I haven't been able to get YMSN to work again at home, do you use MSN? if so, tell me your address
Anyways, I just started trying and trying and I think came up with something closer, but still I'm not very satisfied with the results cuz:
- I can't be controlled enough
- I can't articulate a few words while growling (if this is already a growl)
- I still can't get that DT/ATG/IF type of growl, smooth and more midranged.
Here's my last shot at Wreath eevile growls (Save Target as)
Tell me what you think about it. A note in advance, by the time I'm saying "halting at the brink of discovery" I start to lose power and the pitch goes higher... something to work on! I think I'm doing it right because I've been doing it for about 1hour today and no sore throat so far.. actually I feel a little pressure in the diaphragm area, but nothing special...
cheers
Anyways, I just started trying and trying and I think came up with something closer, but still I'm not very satisfied with the results cuz:
- I can't be controlled enough
- I can't articulate a few words while growling (if this is already a growl)
- I still can't get that DT/ATG/IF type of growl, smooth and more midranged.
Here's my last shot at Wreath eevile growls (Save Target as)
Tell me what you think about it. A note in advance, by the time I'm saying "halting at the brink of discovery" I start to lose power and the pitch goes higher... something to work on! I think I'm doing it right because I've been doing it for about 1hour today and no sore throat so far.. actually I feel a little pressure in the diaphragm area, but nothing special...
cheers
Hexer
Member
that sounds quite a bit better to me than the last clip you postet
I think your technic is improving.
I think your technic is improving.
Oh man, thanks so much for your input! I will practise and I will hopefully not post anything next time I don't see as a satisfying result.
When I sent this mp3 to friend, he said I was using the top of my chest if not my throat. I think I did not used (entirely) the throat because since yesterday, I don't feel anything wrong in my throat, as it happened previously in the demon of the fall pseudo-cover. I also didn't setup my mouth to be in like the diamonds symbol (card symbol, you know?) as people like mikael and swano do. He also mentioned about "vocal projection", what is this all about? when I was recording I kind of had to force the stuff to come out of me and at the same time push the amplitude louder to be able to have this, otherwise I think it would came out of throat and would result in a more high pitched and very disturbed scream... so I'm wondering, is there anything I'm lacking to make/learn? I really would like to have that harsh growl as that of mikael
I will practise and I will hopefully not post anything next time I don't see as a satisfying result.When I sent this mp3 to friend, he said I was using the top of my chest if not my throat. I think I did not used (entirely) the throat because since yesterday, I don't feel anything wrong in my throat, as it happened previously in the demon of the fall pseudo-cover. I also didn't setup my mouth to be in like the diamonds symbol (card symbol, you know?) as people like mikael and swano do. He also mentioned about "vocal projection", what is this all about? when I was recording I kind of had to force the stuff to come out of me and at the same time push the amplitude louder to be able to have this, otherwise I think it would came out of throat and would result in a more high pitched and very disturbed scream... so I'm wondering, is there anything I'm lacking to make/learn? I really would like to have that harsh growl as that of mikael
Oh, btw hexer, have you got any mp3 from your band that I could listen to your growls? thanks & cheers!
ProjectedBlack
Member
You're getting better Morningstar, keep on practicing. In terms of MSN messenger, no, I have a screen-name but havn't used it for months.
http://www.myspace.com/projectedblack for some examples of my vocal works, nothing to impressive on my part, those vocals were easy to do and I'm working on new techniques that I didn't want to use quite yet. Sort of a Morbid Angel type growling.
http://www.myspace.com/projectedblack for some examples of my vocal works, nothing to impressive on my part, those vocals were easy to do and I'm working on new techniques that I didn't want to use quite yet. Sort of a Morbid Angel type growling.
Hey Projected Black! Thanks for your words, really appreciated! As for msn, I will try to install an aim cliente here again then!
About your songs, man! I only wish there was more quality in it, the voice is almost inaudible but the guitarrist sounds good, he's got quite a few decent riffs! Good luck on that, try making a real recording with your computer, get a Cubase and start working your ways towards a better recording, as these ones are all clipping. If you need help on that, I can provide you!
As for msn, I will try to install an aim cliente here again then!About your songs, man! I only wish there was more quality in it, the voice is almost inaudible
but the guitarrist sounds good, he's got quite a few decent riffs! Good luck on that, try making a real recording with your computer, get a Cubase and start working your ways towards a better recording, as these ones are all clipping. If you need help on that, I can provide you!
Hexer
Member
hp of my band is www.selaiah.de I think there are 2 mp3s online, but they are very bad recording quallity (recorded with a single mic on a MD-player in the rehearsal room) and our other guitarist had some problems because he had to use a different guitar that day (2 frets less and no trem) so that stuff doesnt sound very good. we'll try to get better recordings soon.
my solo-project is online at http://www.track4.de/agentur/bands/8656 here I used some effects on the vocals (a bit too much actually ) I'll get a better overall sound (drums, vocals, guitars) next time.
my solo-project is online at http://www.track4.de/agentur/bands/8656 here I used some effects on the vocals (a bit too much actually
) I'll get a better overall sound (drums, vocals, guitars) next time.
umdebaba
Napoleon-theSinister{}
Umdebaba's Unofficial Guide to Growling
The 'magic technique' you hear being thrown around in the talks of growling actually refers to a technique in actual singing called the diaphragm push. It is also referred to as "growling for your gut" or "growling from your stomach". What you want to do is first develop your lungs. Let me give an example of an exercise that will help you develop your lungs. NEVER BREATHE IN THROUGH YOUR NOSE.
Ex. 1 -
Open your mouth into the shape of an O. Keep your throat open and relaxed. You should not feel tension in your throat during this exercise. Place your hand in front of the opening of your mouth. Position your parallel to your face as if you were about to judo chop your nose with the index finger side of your hand. Bring your hand closer to your face and make sure there is contact between your face and hand. Breathe in slowly but taking in air as much air as you can at a steady rate. NEVER BREATHE IN THROUGH YOUR NOSE. Your chest should not come out. When you are taking in air your stomach area should come out and your shoulders should not rise. If you feel pain you are doing it wrong. Now extend your arm away from you with your palm facing you and your palm should be in a straight line and same level from your mouth. Blow out all your air. If you do not feel the air hitting your palm you are not blowing out hard enough. After you get this slow proceed to doing it faster. It would help to do this in counts. In for 4 counts then out for 4 counts, Then 3/4, 2/4, 1/4. 3/3, 2/3, 1/3, 2/2, 1/2, 1/1.
Doing that exercise will increase your lung capcity and help greatly in your vocal work. Now how do you apply that to growling? Well try to growl first. Notice what your face is doing, and what your throat and body is doing. You want to keep the O shape in your mouth. Make sure your throat is relaxed and not tensed or you will not get a low sound. Make sure your body is not tense. When growling make sure your shoulders do not rise not does your chest come out. You stomach is what should push out. Now onto the diaphragm push.
Diaphragm push -
The diaphragm push is basically the combining of all these techniques. When you are growling make sure you push your stomach out and you and not using your throat to generate the sound. You should hardly feel any pain if any at all. You might feel light headed at first getting used to pushing that much air. The key is to push much as much air as you can. The more air, the bigger and fuller the sound. This is why you need to do lung exercises. Keeping your mouth in the O shape and making your throat relaxed is the key to getting a dark, rich sound. Another thing you might want to try is dropping your jaw. The closer you keep your jaw together, the more pinched and bright sound you will have. So you want to try to seperate your teeth when growling. Adjust the distance to fit how you want to sound.
When you growl make sure you growl at a volume where other people could hear it. If you can hardly hear your growls then that means you are not pushing air and need to reconsider your technique. Air blowing does not mean volume though. The more air you blow and relaxed and open your mouth is, the better sound you will attain at a good volume.
Cheers!
Umdebaba
The 'magic technique' you hear being thrown around in the talks of growling actually refers to a technique in actual singing called the diaphragm push. It is also referred to as "growling for your gut" or "growling from your stomach". What you want to do is first develop your lungs. Let me give an example of an exercise that will help you develop your lungs. NEVER BREATHE IN THROUGH YOUR NOSE.
Ex. 1 -
Open your mouth into the shape of an O. Keep your throat open and relaxed. You should not feel tension in your throat during this exercise. Place your hand in front of the opening of your mouth. Position your parallel to your face as if you were about to judo chop your nose with the index finger side of your hand. Bring your hand closer to your face and make sure there is contact between your face and hand. Breathe in slowly but taking in air as much air as you can at a steady rate. NEVER BREATHE IN THROUGH YOUR NOSE. Your chest should not come out. When you are taking in air your stomach area should come out and your shoulders should not rise. If you feel pain you are doing it wrong. Now extend your arm away from you with your palm facing you and your palm should be in a straight line and same level from your mouth. Blow out all your air. If you do not feel the air hitting your palm you are not blowing out hard enough. After you get this slow proceed to doing it faster. It would help to do this in counts. In for 4 counts then out for 4 counts, Then 3/4, 2/4, 1/4. 3/3, 2/3, 1/3, 2/2, 1/2, 1/1.
Doing that exercise will increase your lung capcity and help greatly in your vocal work. Now how do you apply that to growling? Well try to growl first. Notice what your face is doing, and what your throat and body is doing. You want to keep the O shape in your mouth. Make sure your throat is relaxed and not tensed or you will not get a low sound. Make sure your body is not tense. When growling make sure your shoulders do not rise not does your chest come out. You stomach is what should push out. Now onto the diaphragm push.
Diaphragm push -
The diaphragm push is basically the combining of all these techniques. When you are growling make sure you push your stomach out and you and not using your throat to generate the sound. You should hardly feel any pain if any at all. You might feel light headed at first getting used to pushing that much air. The key is to push much as much air as you can. The more air, the bigger and fuller the sound. This is why you need to do lung exercises. Keeping your mouth in the O shape and making your throat relaxed is the key to getting a dark, rich sound. Another thing you might want to try is dropping your jaw. The closer you keep your jaw together, the more pinched and bright sound you will have. So you want to try to seperate your teeth when growling. Adjust the distance to fit how you want to sound.
When you growl make sure you growl at a volume where other people could hear it. If you can hardly hear your growls then that means you are not pushing air and need to reconsider your technique. Air blowing does not mean volume though. The more air you blow and relaxed and open your mouth is, the better sound you will attain at a good volume.
Cheers!
Umdebaba
umdebaba
Napoleon-theSinister{}
For a sample of my growls here is the link http://www.sotmusicianguild.com/uploads/Malganis_demon of the weeman_clip.mp3
The vocals were recorded in a few minutes and were not fixed for minor errors.
The vocals were recorded in a few minutes and were not fixed for minor errors.
Hey Hexer, I have download one mp3 from selaiah, but I haven't heard it well, I'm on a laptop and my computer doesn't yet have internet... or connection to my PC, at least. So I can't listen to the song in decent speakers! But I liked the stuff I heard. How do I download the songs from your personal project without undergoing a germany course?
Umdebaba: That was great, really, I can't try this stuff now, cuz I moved to a "rich neighbourhood" and I never have a time alone, unfortunately but I am so anxious to get into a studio to practise that =)
As for your mp3 I could not hear it well, the same I said to hexer applies here by the end it seems you've doubled the voice, is this your voice on top of the original song or did you record the song and doubled the voice?
And I just added you, I am artenovecento on AIM.
Cheers and a friggin big thank you to all you who provided so much insight on the matter! This thread will be the definite growl-howto thread!
Cheers fellas!
Umdebaba: That was great, really, I can't try this stuff now, cuz I moved to a "rich neighbourhood" and I never have a time alone, unfortunately
but I am so anxious to get into a studio to practise that =)As for your mp3 I could not hear it well, the same I said to hexer applies here
by the end it seems you've doubled the voice, is this your voice on top of the original song or did you record the song and doubled the voice? And I just added you, I am artenovecento on AIM.
Cheers and a friggin big thank you to all you who provided so much insight on the matter! This thread will be the definite growl-howto thread!
Cheers fellas!
I also found this on a similar thread on Andy Sneap's forum:
Haven't heard the mp3 yet...
Hammer Bart said:
Haven't heard the mp3 yet...
umdebaba
Napoleon-theSinister{}
morningstar said:As for your mp3 I could not hear it well, the same I said to hexer applies here
I recorded the track and then used multiple layers when recording my voice. The only reason for the layering for for presence. Death vocals in parts like that tend to sound better layered. But no effects were used on the vocals except for very slight reverb. And a little more reverb on the last scream. I heard somewhere that Mikael used and octaver to lower the pitch down an octave for Demon of the fall. But I didn't do that.