Thought on PoS Scarsick

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Guitars - Halcyon Way
Nov 9, 2003
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Hey....am I the only one that got a little offended by the anti-American sentiment on this album? I will be the first to admit that I've only listened to it once, and I don't really follow them closely (especially after BE which was seriously abysmal IMO), so maybe I'm missing some tongue in cheek devil's advocate kinda lyric writing. Am I missing something????
 
Yes, youre missing a lot. The criticism isn't only on American culture, but mostly oh human behavior around the world. Yes, he criticizes America in a bunch of parts in the album, but nothing that doesn't make any sense. It's all a matter of thinking about it.
 
I agree that it seems much more anti-Western than anti-American. Also, if you listen closely to the lyrics for America, it's not really that anti-American but "critical" IMO.

Should have my official copy Thursday morning when I arrive in Amsterdam, though, and am withholding final judgment on "meanings" until I have the lyrics all in my grubby little hands.

However, from previous comments on this board, no, you're not alone. There are a lot of folks who seem mightily offended.
 
I'm kinda in the same boat, but on first listen I got really pissed. Basically felt that "ok, if you feel that way about the way we do things, then stay in europe and sip latte". I'll probably withhold judgment for a minute.....
 
I agree that it seems much more anti-Western than anti-American.
Is there really a difference between the two? Saying "anti-Western" seems like a politically correct way of saying "anti-American". After all, who defines "western culture" if not America?

I have a very strange relationship with anti-American sentiment. I have no problem saying our President is a complete jackass, who makes me want to claim Canadian citizenship every time he opens his mouth. However, when I hear people from other countries on their anti-American soapboxes, it really irks me.

Zod
 
Is there really a difference between the two? Saying "anti-Western" seems like a politically correct way of saying "anti-American". After all, who defines "western culture" if not America?

Absolutely there's a difference, IMO. It's a difference, first of all, between saying "Ya'll are a bunch of fuck-ups", and "We are bunch of fuck-ups", if that makes any sense to you. :b Yes, the US has more or less defined Western culture, but is not alone, and there are differences between culture here and culture "there" (wherever there may be). Of course, I've lived in the US most of my life, so my perspective on other cultures is going to be largely speculative and based on what I've read/heard from others. but "US culture" =/= "Western culture" to me. They're just two overlapping bubbles, the degree of the overlap is debatable, I suppose.

I have a very strange relationship with anti-American sentiment. I have no problem saying our President is a complete jackass, who makes me want to claim Canadian citizenship every time he opens his mouth. However, when I hear people from other countries on their anti-American soapboxes, it really irks me.

I do find that strange but somewhat understandable. To me, what makes a difference is if they are just brainlessly blathering on or if they know what they're talking about (and that does not depend on where you live--plenty of Americans are flaming idiots talking out of their asses, too :p). To me, Daniel ('cuz, come on, it's pretty much him) sounds like he knows what he's talking about. The fact that I tend to agree with what he says probably colors my opinion, I'm sure. But I just don't see why there should be a *big* difference between me saying something and, say, my husband saying something about politics/culture/what-have-you in the US. I guess I don't really credit the term "anti-American" in many cases.

Btw, I'd be interested to hear your wife's opinion if she's listened to it. I liked what she had to say about Be, and I know her politics and yours are a little different.

Shaye
 
To me, Daniel ('cuz, come on, it's pretty much him) sounds like he knows what he's talking about.
Shaye

Agreed. In order for you to make criticism of something, you better know it before you say senseless things. It's interesting how this whole Anti American thing works, at least in my view...

I am not American. I haven't lived in the country for over 7 years. However, I grew up here, and despite having lived in this country for only 7 years (I'm 22), I can say I am totally used to the way things are in the US. That being said, I can pretty much say I have seen things from both, outsider and insider.

Do I think a lot of things in America are bullshit and gets me pissed off? Absolutely. Do I agree with the way everything goes here? Nope. Do I agree with people from outside this country when they make critical comments about the US without having been able to experience it? Absolutely not. You can talk shit about anything you want, but you better know damn well about it...
 
I'm still luke warm on this album (and this is after having listened to it many times over the past month or whatever). Especially now that I know Scarsick is TPE Part 2, I must say I am very disappointed overall. While I love some of the songs (Idiocracy & Kingdom of Loss in particular), none of them really live up to the masterpiece that is TPE. I'll take King of Loss over Kingdom of Loss any day.

And regarding the anti-American sentiments, while I agree that Daniel is certainly more intelligent than the average human being and I agree with him on a lot of his points (hell, I'm not too happy with the country at the moment myself; I'm tempted to move to Europe), how can he fairly criticize a country he hasn't experienced? He hasn't lived here. He refuses to even come here now, and he's only been here what? like 3 times? Has he even been to the US outside of PP performances? So what's the majority of his opinion based on? Whatever the media happens to be spewing at the time? Not sure it's an entirely fair judgment on his part.
 
Is there really a difference between the two? Saying "anti-Western" seems like a politically correct way of saying "anti-American". After all, who defines "western culture" if not America?

I have a very strange relationship with anti-American sentiment. I have no problem saying our President is a complete jackass, who makes me want to claim Canadian citizenship every time he opens his mouth. However, when I hear people from other countries on their anti-American soapboxes, it really irks me.

Zod
I pretty much agree with you on this deal .. can't stand the President of the US, his policies, or anything about him, but I don't take too well to the anti-American sentiment from people that don't even live in this country.

Britt
 
Yes, youre missing a lot. The criticism isn't only on American culture, but mostly oh human behavior around the world. Yes, he criticizes America in a bunch of parts in the album, but nothing that doesn't make any sense. It's all a matter of thinking about it.
and I love him for it. I'm not a fanboy and I can easily pick out the downsides to this and other recordings by the band, but I will say that I agree with him 100% on everything said on this album. Yes, it's probably shocking to most Americans. It's intended to be. He's honestly saying things that need to be said bluntly and clearly, no more insinuations and subtle pretentious philosophy- just flat out "this is what I think is wrong with the world, don't you see it too?" I especially like how he used the very pro-american song "America" from West Side Story and turned it around, using the same melody and rhythm. This and his brutal jab at the media & consumerism with "Cribcaged" were high points for me.

Personally, I think he stated the social crisis fairly well.
 
Is there really a difference between the two? Saying "anti-Western" seems like a politically correct way of saying "anti-American". After all, who defines "western culture" if not America?

I have a very strange relationship with anti-American sentiment. I have no problem saying our President is a complete jackass, who makes me want to claim Canadian citizenship every time he opens his mouth. However, when I hear people from other countries on their anti-American soapboxes, it really irks me.

Zod

There are a lot of people on soapboxes...
I just got back from 3 weeks vacation in Brazil, and I felt a new trend.. People trying to be more "Brazilian"... trying to protect their culture, you know? It's not exactly patriotism, but just being more into Brazilian things..
And that very easily becomes anti-Americanism, as the most widespread international influence in Brazil is by far American... Movies, music, fast food chains, etc..
On the streets I saw signs like "Fuck Halloween, support the Brazilian culture"... (Halloween is being celebrated in Brazil in the past few years, and it's not exactly a Brazilian tradition)...

The problem with that is that people are stupid and start to generalize.. Knowing that I've been living in the US for almost 8 years, a lot of people come up to me to talk about the US and some of the stuff is just frustrating.. Like 10 year olds saying the US sucks... or the doorman from my parent's building (who earns about 150 bucks a month and didn't even finish middle-school) saying he would never live in the US because they are "evil"....

And stuff like that drives me crazy!
On the other hand, some of the more qualified people make some pretty good points, as Lady_Space pointed out... There are some good criticism that comes from abroad.. stuff that even a lot of Americans agree on...And I definitely believe Daniel is one of 'em.
 
Lyrics? Hell, I couldn't stand listening to this cd long enough to HEAR the lyrics. I've heard sooooo much about this band from this board and THIS is the band I'm supposed to love? Frankly, I think this cd was unlistenable. It was silly, lightweight, and devoid of any song structure. For a second, on the verse of Scarsick, I thought it was fucking FALCO singing. Oh my god.

But I realize I'm the minority around here so my opinion probably isn't the one to go with if you're a potential PoS lover.
 
Those lyrics don't seem much different from a lot of thrash lyrics from the late 80s. Like Nuclear Assault for instance.
 
http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/progpower-usa/264069-scarsick-new-pain-salvation-album-artwork-released.html

To the original poster: no, you aren't the only one who has a problem with this album, and no, you aren't missing something. This album is a shallow, flaccid attempt to jump on the anti-America bandwagon about three years after it was cutting edge. It's not that I have a problem with this album because Daniel's holy scripture is so shocking to my complacent, sheltered American mind; I have a problem with it because most of it seems to be based on what he sees in the media, rather than what things are really like here (as Prog Maiden was saying). So what we end up with is a mediocre album that wants to believe it's breaking a lot of ground, but is filled with songs that make fun of rap stars and their money, and the fact that Americans are fat and don't like to use the stairs. Way to tell it like it is, guys!
 
So you think that Americans care more about children than MTV Cribs or celebrity breakups? You think that western society in general, and all around the world, people are more virtuous than selfish, more giving than consumerist?

I don't know what world you come from.
 
Lyrics? Hell, I couldn't stand listening to this cd long enough to HEAR the lyrics. I've heard sooooo much about this band from this board and THIS is the band I'm supposed to love? Frankly, I think this cd was unlistenable. It was silly, lightweight, and devoid of any song structure. For a second, on the verse of Scarsick, I thought it was fucking FALCO singing. Oh my god.

But I realize I'm the minority around here so my opinion probably isn't the one to go with if you're a potential PoS lover.

You are not as small a minority as you might think. ( IMO POS= :puke: )

But outside of all that...
Peeps, ANYONE can talk smack about America--in fact, if the criticism is from someone outside of the country, you may want to look at THEIR sources of information to understand their opinion. Despite what you all might think, we have most of our mainstream (i.e. network) news carefully washed of all the worst things negative about the Bush crime family.

For those who think that someone who lives outside of country has no insight about how we live, consider this: In Kenpo, we are taught that there are three viewpoints you must always consider: The attacker, the defender, and the third person observing the fight. That third person perspective is, in many ways, far more important than either the attacker or defender because the third person sees all the things the combatants don't.

Just because we LIVE here, that does not mean we know better about our country.

Daniel may hate America because he is trying to be trendy, or he is just a bigot. Or, he may hate America because he gets his news from sources outside of America. Or maybe it is a combination of both.

Instead of being pissed at people hating America, you might want to think about WHY they hate us--it may take you down a path you won't like, but should walk anyway.
 
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Interesting discussion here...the fact that I lean very much to the left and consider the Bush administration to be an unmitigated disaster (and am a POS fan, though I'll admit to holding off on ordering Scarsick because of the widespread negative reviews) certainly influences my opinion, but I have no problem with people from other countries bashing America, people who refuse to listen to anyone with an anti-American viewpoint bother me a lot more, I think Daniel has every right to express his opinion, I don't think you need to live here to be disgusted with the way we shove the worst aspects of our culture down everybody's throat. Although I have read the Scarsick lyrics and think his observations are somewhat banal (especially on the image presented by MTV).