to the anti-american greeks here

[MetalManCPA]

Dragonlord:

You are so right. I think the majority of the world is ignorant and narrow-minded, and can't see the big picture. You seem to think like I do - with an open mind. I wish there was a way to wake-up the whole world - kind of like The Matrix - pull a plug, and make everybody see.

Would be nice - wouldn't it?

 

[Faith]

A verry large reason that a decent number of people in the Middle East can't stand those countries that have basicly stable places in the world is because 1) they don't have the stability and power 2) the feel that we are corrupting the people of the world with the things we have and the luxury that we have not to constantly concentrait on war so we have time to try to improve ourselves as people 3) our women run free to make their own decisions and be beautifull for themselves and those they love, basicly women are free here and IF I remember correctly women are beneath human in some places there especially in Afghanistan.



if you want to read something on the Talliban go here.....
http://www.cnn.com/2001/COMMUNITY/08/24/shah/index.html


that's the best I could find at the moment.

 

[Dragonlord]

Originally posted by metalmancpa
Dragonlord:

You are so right. I think the majority of the world is ignorant and narrow-minded, and can't see the big picture. You seem to think like I do - with an open mind. I wish there was a way to wake-up the whole world - kind of like The Matrix - pull a plug, and make everybody see.

Would be nice - wouldn't it?

yes,but I'm afraid that this would be beyond our strength...

 

[Captain Beard]

There will always be those who don't want the truth...
The "Cyphers" of the real world.

 

[romolus]

yeah, so i'm enthusiastic about seeing the terrorist element responsible for this getting blown to bits. so fuckin what.
i also dont think innocent afgans should die. if you want me to go into details, ok then. it's going to be a unique style of military operation involving intelligence and stealth to locate and destroy the enemy because elusiveness is their specialty, so this is the only way to get them, to infiltrate the network and then precisely attack the designated target. it only takes one man to push the "lauch" button on a nuke, we need to make sure this doesn't happen.
we are ridiculously close to this happening and this is why: the talibam regime that has been controlling %90 of afganistan for the last five years is an extreme society that consists of human injustice and glorification of religious martyrdom. their economy is all screwed up because half of the population(women) are not even permitted to work. they are also the 3rd largest producer of heroin in the world. they live an anti-american cause yet profit off of the stock exchange. the anti-american element they have is also prevalent and growing in pakistan. pakistan has nuclear weapons. the people of pakistan are now rioting in the streets and burning american flags. people who share this view, how far and few between they may be in afganistan and pakistan, have proven time and time again that thay are willing to die for this. anyone here see the problem yet?

 

[romolus]

the fact that they are willing to die for this cause is a danger to everybody in the world. that is why we need to occupy afganstan and iraq and change their governments into a system that will be more cohesive with the rest of the world economy, and without all the fuckin' hate.
hey, no one personally gives a fuck how afganistan or pakistan or any of those coutries think or operate socially or culturally. but when it starts to affect the rest of the world (bombing embassies, blowing up the trade center), then it becomes everybody's problem.
i agree that america is fucked. i agree that the resources of the world need to be more evenly distibuted. america has %5 of the worlds population and consumes %40 of the worlds recources. i too am disgusted by this. that is part of the reason i have craft my lifestyle into not needing a car, and to save money.
but the fact remains, they killed 6000 americans in 45 minutes. the threat exists and must be dealt with in the manner i previously detailed.
in conclusion, i think that ultimately america really needs to look out for and try find a way to acknowledge the needs of these coutries, but let me remind you, alot of their economic problems are self inflicted. we need to find a way to help these countries utilize their material(and human) resources to attain and optimum level of productivity and cohesivness with the rest of the world economy. the scary thing is that in this case it also involves an obstacle: extreme religious view and glorification of martyrdom. henceforth, prolonged occupation the only solution sadly enough. with the worlds support i believe world peace will eventually happen, but unfortunately many will die in the process.

freedoms never free

 

[metalized]

Originally posted by Faith
it might not eradicate terrorism.....but it will make it harder for those who wish to act that way.

Do you really think that -assuming that they are cold blood murderers- they will give a shit if innocent people die and they are safe in their caves? Nop!
They will do it again without any regrets! I believe that they will be reliefed that their fellow citizens died in the name of their God, for they will go to Heaven...

 

[metalized]

Originally posted by Faith
okay....for all of you who get your ideas from shows like Friends and all that other shit....yes that includes Cops.......honestly I don't care if people hate me because I'm an American.....you have that right.....but then you do need to realise that that is a form of racism also...because slowly we are becomming one race that is all races. None of you know the hell that I and many others I know have gone through, does that mean that I'm more deserving of my opinions...no. America has our own terrorists....we call them gangs....I have been stabbed, shot at, raped, beaten almost to death, hit by cars.......and the list goes on. And I hold the same opinion about them as I do those that terrorise the rest of the world......just take them out of the gene pool. And if that makes me arrigant, or one of the stupid majority....then you tell me why 5 of my friends have died in my arms........because of people who think it's their right to terrorise others. I've always tried to do what's right, and I haven't always been sucessfull....but I don't want any children anywhere to live through what I have...and if that means that some innocent people have to die....I will honor them in the way of my personal religon. For they will be Marters for the right to live your life as you choose as long as you don't hurt others.

Did anyone say that hates you because you are american? If this did occur, then of course I agree with you; this is racism! I mean he would have to hate Nevermore too, because they americans. It is stupid! We are not talking about the people, but about the things that the US goverment does to show how powerful it is.
Of course all the terrorists need to be wiped off the face of the planet. I cannot understand though how can an entire nation be considered as terrorists. I cannot understand the pain of losing friends in my arms because I 've never experienced it and I am sorry about your friends, but if lets say those who killed your friends were fans of Nevermore, you cannot go and kill all the fans of Nevermore of your country or in the whole world. If they were greek you cannot kill all the greeks.
This is what I am against with. I fear that because this blind attack is assumed to have happened by Bin Laden, the US will vanish the whole of Afganistan with the excuse of the "War against Terrorism".
I have posted it before somewhere.
I am not anti-american (and of course I don't hate you or any other american - I just hate some greeks).
I am anti-stupid and anti-inhuman.
For it is stupidity to go and destroy everything in a part of the world just because you gov't says that one or few more of its habitant is responsible for this (without any evidence present) and it is inhuman to kill people anyway.
Add to stupidity the fact that many people just because they look like they are from Afganistan have been attacked, beatten and who knows what else from fanatic and blinded white americans just because they look like they are from Afganistan.
Now is this racism or what? Is this terrorism or what?
Looks like it's not because it has been commited by US citizens that are by default entitled to deffend the world against everyone they consider to be a menace to the American Dream!

 

[Serge]

for his assistence
sometimes its not easy argueing ... espescially when people seem to not read what others post ...

Dragonlord - keep up your good work

 

[Cthulu]

i'm with ya romolus, well said...

 

[Faith]

I aggree with everyhting you said in your last post, it is not right to whipe Afghanistan off the map, it is NOT right for people who are seen as Middle Eastern to be attacked in our streets. Like I have said, we need to be VERRY carefull about how we respond to these attacks. And from what Pres. Bush said last night that is exactly how he's looking at it. We need to help the people in Afghanistan to take care of themselves. Not just go in and give them hand outs, but teach them what they need to know to become self sufficant. Part of that in my opinion is to help them rebuild, and give their people a time to rest and recouperait. Teach them medicine, to take care of their sick and injured and a hoast of other things. But I think that we need to go in and occupy for a while to do this, or at least take the Talibon out of power. Let their people choose how they want to live instead of just having their government conquer them.



Just another of the many opinions that may or may not be popular

 

[MetalManCPA]

Originally posted by Faith
I aggree with everyhting you said in your last post, it is not right to whipe Afghanistan off the map, it is NOT right for people who are seen as Middle Eastern to be attacked in our streets. Like I have said, we need to be VERRY carefull about how we respond to these attacks. And from what Pres. Bush said last night that is exactly how he's looking at it. We need to help the people in Afghanistan to take care of themselves. Not just go in and give them hand outs, but teach them what they need to know to become self sufficant. Part of that in my opinion is to help them rebuild, and give their people a time to rest and recouperait. Teach them medicine, to take care of their sick and injured and a hoast of other things. But I think that we need to go in and occupy for a while to do this, or at least take the Talibon out of power. Let their people choose how they want to live instead of just having their government conquer them.

The only problem is we're waging a global war on terrorism, and Afghanistan is but one country. To me, there are some economic impossibilities here - who pays for this teaching of the world? Us the taxpayers? And what about the other countries that may be affected? Do we spend $ to help them? And of course, what about are own internal problems with our economy, our impovershed? The good samaritan approach is all well and good, and I wish it could work - I'm just a pessimist right now.

Man - a lot of difficult decisions to be made. That pressure would probably crush my skull.

 

[LSDphilosophy]

I really don't like how Bush is saying"youre either with us or against us..." bullshit, I am for the tolerance of people and neither of these groups tolerate, they want it their way. Dealing with what faith said, how the people their don't get to choose and shit like that, well that is their religion, and I doubt that most would give it up. It may seem ridiculous to us, but to them it has been that way their whole life. People usually don't just drop their way of thinking overnight... (unless you practice the religion of hallucinogenics hahaha) Stick out your tongue, here comes the key to the universe

 

[MetalManCPA]

Originally posted by LSDphilosophy
I really don't like how Bush is saying"youre either with us or against us..." bullshit, I am for the tolerance of people and neither of these groups tolerate, they want it their way. Dealing with what faith said, how the people their don't get to choose and shit like that, well that is their religion, and I doubt that most would give it up. It may seem ridiculous to us, but to them it has been that way their whole life. People usually don't just drop their way of thinking overnight... (unless you practice the religion of hallucinogenics hahaha) Stick out your tongue, here comes the key to the universe

Exactly the quandry here. If this war is on terrorism, then the religious point of view doesn't count - as terrorism defined in this instance is the killing of innocent people by radical groups to serve their message to the population. If religion seeps in here, then what the hell are we fighting against? More than just terrorism?

Terrorism isn't a way of life, or a religious belief - or is it, and I'm just naive.

 

[metalized]

Originally posted by Faith
We need to help the people in Afghanistan to take care of themselves.

Yeah, right. Like you (I mean the US gov't helped the people in IRAQ, YUGOSLAVIA, VIETNAM,...). Give me a break and face truth! What would Bush say? That they are preparing a second Vietnam? It is in the nature of US gov'ts to go and help people out, by waging war against them! And this is not about terrorism!! It is about capitalism, and profit from the resourses of Afganistan and its neighbours (OIL countries all arround etc.) I say, man, terrorism is just the excuse for the US to go down there and make itself feel like home (though it is going to be difficult)! I mean this simple thing: Why motivating the whole planet to wage war against someone (supposingly a single person), without even having evidence (just indications) of its guilt? Is this freedom? The hell it is.

Just think a while (all of us, not just faith!)

 

[metalized]

"You 'd better listen to me you son of a bitch
Better disarm those missiles sleeping in the ditch
You 've got no god damn right to do the things you do
The world would be a better place if we were rid of you"

SAVATAGE - Of Rage And War (from "Gutter Ballet").

This goes from me to all the war wagers and supporters!

 

[Faith]

it's so wonderfull to be told you're wrong all the time.