To those who care, please help out !

[*SIL]

petition

Hi!
My name is Sylvia. I am 26-year-old woman living in Poland, Bialystok. I'm one of many protesting against sick and definitely not normal situation in our country. It's a reason of me writing to You on behalf of many more.

Since there has been a new president in Poland: Lech Kaczynski, who used to be a member of PiS (ruling conservative party now being in coalition with LPR-hard right nationalist and Samoobrona-hard left), many radical changes have been made in Poland. Those changes stroke among other things into BIS Polish Radio
BIS Polish Radio
which until 11th of July was known as radio promoting free speech. The hosts of shows did not avoid controversial subjects, such as the rights of homosexuals or religious and political issues. The music played could be described as "everything but mainstream", and this included vast range of music beginning from industrial electronic music and ending on dark and religiously controversial genres of metal music . Wide discussions on music played have been an inherent part of the shows; oftenguests from
various music bands were invited.
Most people hosting shows have been fired so far. Starting from 12th of August the music will be played using a randomized computer system. The interaction of the listeners with hosts (if any are left; as new names of those leaving or being fired appear on a daily basis) will be limited or gone.. Person responsible for those changes is new director of BIS: Jacek Sobala.
The very first thing that he did was taking off air "Masala" (from Hindi, meaning "mixture" and relating to variety of music taken from different regions). It was a regular show hosted by Mr. Max Cegielski, a well-known traveller. His guests were to be members of an officially acting Polish organization "Nigdy Więcej" ("Never Again", enforcing anti-racism campaigns and reporting cases of racial or xenophobia-based assaults in Poland Never Again ). That was precisely the topic of the show - "Fighting against fascism in Poland".
The headline, posted on official website of Radio BIS, stated:
"Since 1990, there have been reported forty victims of xenophobia-based aggression. We are concerned whether these shocking data will be included in he patriotic education classes enforced by Roman Giertych [head of LPR and Polish Ministry of Education, as well as a founder and an honour council of MW. Moreover, the fascists, inciting to violence, are often closely connected with LPR and MW]. Therefore, the killers have some support in Polish Government, as well as the senators, the clerks and
the ministers originating from those organizations are accomplice in deaths of innocent people."
Mr. Cegielski was asked to change the topic; his refusal to do so provoked the new director to fire him. Mr. Sobala announced: "In the public Radio there is no place for advocating such theses. I proposed Mr. Cegielski to find a radio station where he can promote such views." [Mr. Sobala's statement given to the Polish newspapers]

Why am I writing all this to You?
All authorities in Poland are unity now. They will speak one voice and they will not support us, the listeners and publicists of Radio BIS. Neither the President, nor the Ministry of Culture or the National Radio Broadcasting and Television Council will do this. International organizations, which - as you have bravely shown so far - are not reluctant for ANY abuse of media freedom, are our last chance.
We have set up a webpage where artists, organizations and individuals can put their links on a support list. The webpage in its old appearance can be found at BIS Forever

We ask for Your support and understanding throughout signing these petitions.
PETITION
MASALA PETITION

This would mean a lot to us!

Once again, please suuport us. Your voice is important in our case, just as it has been so far in many similar ones.

Protesters

 

[Justin S.]

*SIL,

Philosophy is not bound to, nor serves, liberal humanism and I grow tired of this assumption.

If anything, your dogma disintegrates under its gaze.

I will not sign your petition (although Im sure you will get Silver Inc and the rest) and take issue with your sale of a ultra-biased "cause" in an area dedicated to critical thought.

 

[Horus]

Harsh, much.

 

[Silver Incubus]

*SIL,

Philosophy is not bound to, nor serves, liberal humanism and I grow tired of this assumption.

If anything, your dogma disintegrates under its gaze.

I will not sign your petition (although Im sure you will get Silver Inc and the rest) and take issue with your sale of a ultra-biased "cause" in an area dedicated to critical thought.

You are more stupid than funny Justin S.

Hell, Canada is much worse then poland probbably is.

 

[*SIL]

I will not sign your petition (although Im sure you will get Silver Inc and the rest) and take issue with your sale of a ultra-biased "cause" in an area dedicated to critical thought.

I assumed that here I could find people
who will understand our fight regardless of
philosophy indeed.
Noone needs to sign this petition if he
doesn't want, it's only Your own free choice.
Please notice that I was asking for support.
I am aware that politics has nothing in common
with philosophy.

Since I am not philosopher myself, but an architect,
I may not be a good interlocutor to You. And
probably I will not be ;-)

Afterall, where can I find "Petitions" forum?

 

[Norsemaiden]

Multi-culturalism => monoculturalism = genocide

Its news to me if the Polish government is against multi-culturalism.

 

[speed]

I assumed that here I could find people
who will understand our fight regardless of
philosophy indeed.
Noone needs to sign this petition if he
doesn't want, it's only Your own free choice.
Please notice that I was asking for support.
I am aware that politics has nothing in common
with philosophy.

Since I am not philosopher myself, but an architect,
I may not be a good interlocutor to You. And
probably I will not be ;-)

Afterall, where can I find "Petitions" forum?

Sorry mademoiselle, indeed this may not be the best place for this thread--especially as I doubt you will find alot of support on this sub-forum. I do however sympathize with your radio cause: although, I might add, it doesnt seem very important to me. America is quite the same: corporations elimanated any controversial programming years ago, and our confused ultra-liberal/conservative republicans decided to police everyones morals, with ridiculous fines for words like shit. So, I suppose apart from the freedom of the internet, this censorship is the way of the future.

 

[speed]

*SIL,

Philosophy is not bound to, nor serves, liberal humanism and I grow tired of this assumption.

If anything, your dogma disintegrates under its gaze.

I will not sign your petition (although Im sure you will get Silver Inc and the rest) and take issue with your sale of a ultra-biased "cause" in an area dedicated to critical thought.

I personally think you went overboard here. This radio station apparently plays extreme metal--whic is far from liberal or humanist--as well as other things. And I see no problem with playing other culture's music. I dont care for censorship in any form, but it seems, as humans, we havent progressed morally in thousands of years, and thus censorship will always find a place in everyday society.

 

[*SIL]

censorship will always find a place in everyday society.

well yes, but is it similar
to agreeing on such fact?

p.s. this forum might not
be the best place for my
thread, neverthless we can talk
about freedom and the meaning of
it to all of You

 

[speed]

well yes, but is it similar
to agreeing on such fact?

p.s. this forum might not
be the best place for my
thread, neverthless we can talk
about freedom and the meaning of
it to all of You

You must be a journalist, as youve taken my comment out of context, so it seems like Im making a sweeping generalization.

But yes, if other wish to talk about freedom etc, i see no reason why not.

 

[*SIL]

I'm not a journalist. I'm architect
as I said before.
I did understood Your point with
whole context. Anyway I wanted to
keep Your attention on Your conclusion:
"censorship will always find a place in everyday society."

Because I do not say YES to such situation,

You seem to get over it as it is obvious,
that's why I'm asking You to talk about
freedom which is violated with cenzorship.

 

[speed]

I'm not a journalist. I'm architect
as I said before.
I did understood Your point with
whole context. Anyway I wanted to
keep Your attention on Your conclusion:
"censorship will always find a place in everyday society."

Because I do not say YES to such situation,

You seem to get over it as it is obvious,
that's why I'm asking You to talk about
freedom which is violated with cenzorship.

yes good point, I do assume censorship by the government. Why? A way to hold on to power, to satisfy segments of the population. Or perhaps mankind is not ready for total freedom--anything and everything? Metal is a good example: how many satanists, or neo-nazis, or downright idiots, do you see in metal? Alot of these idiots actually believe some of this nonsense. Too many idiots is the problem, and one I dont foresee changing in the near future.

 

[Justin S.]

I personally think you went overboard here. This radio station apparently plays extreme metal--whic is far from liberal or humanist--as well as other things. And I see no problem with playing other culture's music. I dont care for censorship in any form, but it seems, as humans, we havent progressed morally in thousands of years, and thus censorship will always find a place in everyday society.

The programs she emphasizes are not simply "extreme metal" based:

"Never Again", enforcing anti-racism campaigns and reporting cases of racial or xenophobia-based assaults in Poland Never Again ). That was precisely the topic of the show - "Fighting against fascism in Poland".

"Since 1990, there have been reported forty victims of xenophobia-based aggression. We are concerned whether these shocking data will be included in he patriotic education classes enforced by Roman Giertych [head of LPR and Polish Ministry of Education, as well as a founder and an honour council of MW. Moreover, the fascists, inciting to violence, are often closely connected with LPR and MW]. Therefore, the killers have some support in Polish Government, as well as the senators, the clerks and
the ministers originating from those organizations are accomplice in deaths of innocent people."

Clearly there is more here than "metal" (which is mostly garbage and I lose no sleep over it being taken off the air).

I disagree with your statement that extreme metal is far from liberal humanism. Most of the musicians fall right in line when they get off stage, their act and music little more than a reactionary temper tantrum. Furthermore, the enabling condition for such a reaction is liberal humanism. Either way, they are trapped within its concerns and conceptualization.

We are always censoring, in all areas of our lives. I see this issue, like so many others, as fuel for those who need something to "protest" over. It is this mode of "protesting" that they value, the issues at hand often there only to support this mentality and lifestyle.

 

[speed]

The programs she emphasizes are not simply "extreme metal" based:



Clearly there is more here than "metal" (which is mostly garbage and I lose no sleep over it being taken off the air).

I disagree with your statement that extreme metal is far from liberal humanism. Most of the musicians fall right in line when they get off stage, their act and music little more than a reactionary temper tantrum. Furthermore, the enabling condition for such a reaction is liberal humanism. Either way, they are trapped within its concerns and conceptualization.

We are always censoring, in all areas of our lives. I see this issue, like so many others, as fuel for those who need something to "protest" over. It is this mode of "protesting" that they value, the issues at hand often there only to support this mentality and lifestyle.

Well yes, i agree with you, thus my contention that most metal people are idiots; and as you infer, persons who either dont get the symbolism, or are protesting just to protest.


Yet, what may I ask, do you suggest as an alternative? And why, do you take issue with this censorship of Polish radio?

 

[*SIL]

yes good point, I do assume censorship by the government. Why? A way to hold on to power, to satisfy segments of the population. Or perhaps mankind is not ready for total freedom--anything and everything? Metal is a good example: how many satanists, or neo-nazis, or downright idiots, do you see in metal? Alot of these idiots actually believe some of this nonsense. Too many idiots is the problem, and one I dont foresee changing in the near future.

Government satisfies one segment, dissatisfies the other one.
You cannot make everyone like the same things, becaue it's not
possible. We are different and will stay like this for always.
Mankind is obviously not ready for total freedom, this would
be the bitter end of mankind if it happened.
What I am trying to say is that You cannot do one thing and
tell the other person it is good for them while they believe it is not.
What is more, this person says it loudly that is not happy, but
government doesn't care.
As to metal, You overreact. There are idiots everywhere.

But You took of context metal music;
I was writing about shutting mouth when saying the truth:
"The very first thing that he did was taking off air "Masala" (from Hindi, meaning "mixture" and relating to variety of music taken from different regions). It was a regular show hosted by Mr. Max Cegielski, a well-known traveller. His guests were to be members of an officially acting Polish organization "Nigdy Więcej" ("Never Again", enforcing anti-racism campaigns and reporting cases of racial or xenophobia-based assaults in Poland Never Again ). That was precisely the topic of the show - "Fighting against fascism in Poland".
The headline, posted on official website of Radio BIS, stated:
"Since 1990, there have been reported forty victims of xenophobia-based aggression. We are concerned whether these shocking data will be included in he patriotic education classes enforced by Roman Giertych [head of LPR and Polish Ministry of Education, as well as a founder and an honour council of MW. Moreover, the fascists, inciting to violence, are often closely connected with LPR and MW]. Therefore, the killers have some support in Polish Government, as well as the senators, the clerks and
the ministers originating from those organizations are accomplice in deaths of innocent people."

And let me tell You something about our ruling coalision:
Since there has been a new president in Poland Lech Kaczynski (former head of PiS [eng.:"Law and Justice"] - ruling conservative party now being in coalition with LPR-hard right nationalist and Samoobrona-hard left), many radical changes have been made in Poland.
The new head of Polish Radio BIS, Mr. Krzysztof Czabanski, right-wing-oriented publicist handed the direct supervision of BIS to Mr. Jacek Sobala, also a publicist, who has so far worked in three different radio stations
(including national Polish Radio Channel Three) as well as hosted a show on
private television, TV Puls. Not surprisingly, his political origin is
similar - he was recommended for this position by one of the parties of
reigning coalition, LPR (The Polish Families League) - strong
right-wing-oriented party, whose members have been reported giving
statements of xenophobic, anti-European, racist and anti-Jewish sound, and
have never apologized for that. Some, including the vice - head of Polish TV
Piotr Farfał, are former or active members of MW (Młodzież Wszechpolska,
which may be translated as Omnipolish Youth). MW is a youth section of LPR;
the name is a tribute to a similar organization that existed in the 1930's
and is known for its strong anti-Jewish propaganda. The present MW does not
deny a certain resemblance of its structure and methods of upbringing its
members to the infamous Hitlerjugend. Its members have been numerously
reported to participate in xenophobic and fascist actions including
demonstrations during which violence was used, attacks on the members of
left-wing organizations (a few murders are still being investigated), publishing
xenophobic, racist, fascist and Nazi propaganda in underground magazines.
The official website of MW there is a description of organization doctrine that contains numerous quotes from propaganda speeches of Adolph Hitler, used in exactly the same context as in their "ancestor's" originals.
LPR suggests to tight-en law and introduce death penalty for
perpetrators of crime commited with special brutality against
sexual motives on under age of 15 years old victims.

Recently, Stowarzyszenie Dziennikarzy Polskich (Polish
Journalists' Association) has made a statement, in which they protested
against violation of laws by the politicians who are not given any right
to interfere in the actions of public media
http://www.sdp.pl/artviewer.php?article=132, SDP can be
contacted at sdp@sdp.pl

I do not agree with this nationalists and killers,
politics came into my door herself. Murdered my
radio, giving nothing instead. Took away freedom of speech.

If You call this all good cenzorship, well...
I will not comment Your opinion anymore.

Just simply tell me what freedom means to You.

 

[Justin S.]

Yet, what may I ask, do you suggest as an alternative? And why, do you take issue with this censorship of Polish radio?

An alternative for what? Im not sure what you mean, and If you do clarify, that there will even be such a thing.

I dont have much vested in the Polish radio issue, primarily because I know so little about it (only what was presented in this thread, which is a very skewed perspective).

In general though, I dont demonize "censorship" categorically because we all excercise it constantly. It can be useful or disgusting. I dont know enough about this particular issue's context (Polish media) to evaluate its censorship.

However, if the programs *SIL listed are indicative of the mentality of the station, and a segment of Polish youth in general, then maybe some english of the governments boot is not such a bad thing.

 

[speed]

Im a bit confused about the direction of our discussion; I dont know if I led us into a another discussion, or you did. Whatever happened, I feel like we're talking about different things.

Metal was just an example of there being idiots everywhere.

So back to your point about this radio station; I cant help but to think your government was elected by the Polish people, and thus given a mandate by the people. I suppose if you want things to change, you must vote against this administration.

Perhaps Justin S' comments were a bit more spot on than I originally thought.

 

[*SIL]

I posted here some more informations
in order to clear the situaiton to You
because I assumed You are not interested in
my country's politcs.
I thought You led discussion into metal
music. So I wanted You to notice that
this cenzorship is deeper than some
music, although it was very important to
many people.
I voted against all those maniacs, I voted
for opposition (PO, right winged). General
election took place in September last year.
So I'll have to wait 3 yrs more to vote again.
PiS won with more than 50% support, so
the boundary is slick.

Now at this point I have nothing more to do than
stay here in my country and express my opinion.

 

[speed]

An alternative for what? Im not sure what you mean, and If you do clarify, that there will even be such a thing.

I meant, do you have a viable alternative to liberal humanism and democracy.

As for *SIL, I do find your political situation fascinating, but one has to understand, that Polish politics dont receive any coverage at all in the US, and thus one would have to have more than a vested interest in Poland, to keep track.

 

[*SIL]

I meant, do you have a viable alternative to liberal humanism and democracy.

As for *SIL, I do find your political situation fascinating, but one has to understand, that Polish politics dont receive any coverage at all in the US, and thus one would have to have more than a vested interest in Poland, to keep track.

I understand than this is Your overlook?