Diamond45
Terminate Bad Music
One of these years (hopefully by then you'll be gainfully employed) you need to come see TSO East with Chris and Alex. They put on a great show.
Trans-Siberian Orchestra: Night Castle
- Thread starter edgeofthorns
- Start date
One of these years (hopefully by then you'll be gainfully employed) you need to come see TSO East with Chris and Alex. They put on a great show.
Diamond45
Terminate Bad Music
If you've seen the Christmas part once, you've seen it a million times. Doesn't change very much.
The spoken word part is ok, but the music that goes along with it.. awesome stuff.
TexasBeth
Yes, that's my daughter
OMG. My daughter said this the very first time she heard the CD... Die, Die, Die, I cahhnnn't. lol, she's doing the vindication dance in front of me now.
KingsGene
God of Thunder
DTJeff
I Am My Nation
I am entirely late on this, mostly due to how little I've been posting in the past 2 months, but rather than coughing up a new statement about the whole thing, I'm just going to re-post what I put up in my Facebook Criss Oliva Memorial Group, about my thoughts on TSO's redoing of Savatage songs and what it means to me and other Sava-fans, etc.
"I can't really sum up my thoughts on this topic in a small sentiment. I am generally against it though. I am militantly against the rerecording of Believe.
I've heard all the bits about "Well TSO gets more people exposed to Savatage's music", which I agree, it does, but not the way most people think. The majority of people who go to see TSO shows are not metal/genuine music fans who care enough to bother listening to "The band that the TSO guys are from". They just want to go to see TSO once a year, get into the spirit of Christmas, and go home. Maybe spin the albums a few times around the holidays, but they don't really care about the music and where it came from. Not in the sense that Savatage fans care about it. There are two types of people: Trans-Siberian Orchestra fans and Savatage fans who also like/support Trans-Siberian Orchestra.
I didn't really mind the rerecording of Back to a Reason, and I don't mind the redone Mozart and Madness either. One, because those songs had nothing to do with Criss, but also because they didn't have a huge stake in the emotional legacy of Savatage. No one got personally offended by the band rerecording those songs or releasing Sarajevo and it becoming a big hit.
However, I don't like the idea of taking Criss out of Prelude to Madness. I understand that in theory all Prelude really was was a variation on a classical piece anyway, so I can't really bitch that much, but it's still the thought. They could've just done a totally NEW arrangement rather than making it seeming like they were trying to just redo it for the sake of redoing it.
Believe is a whole other story. This is the only song to have ever made me cry, and it has actually done so more than once. And from my experience with many other people, I realize I am far from alone. This song means the world and so much more to people - but it's not just the song. It's the legacy as well as the power and spirit Jon Oliva brought to the vocal performance. As with most things he sings, Jon made you feel the passion and struggle, he forced you to feel those feelings. The thought of taking Jon out in favor of some dime-a-dozen gravelly-voiced "Rock Ballad" singer is just preposterous to me. Also, let's not forget that the lyrics to Believe are engraved on Criss Oliva's goddamn grave. Then again, so is the guitar graphic which has merely been turned into a marketing graphic for the cash-grabbing Trans-Siberian Orchestra.
In summation, I think TSO has lost the spirit. There isn't anything genuine about what they're doing anymore. Some of their material of the past really did live and breathe with the HEART of Savatage - but that's long gone. Replaced by choreographed Christmas lights and overblown pyrotechnics. There is no spirit of Christmas left, there is no spirit of life left. It's honestly really sad. It's just an overblown money-machine anymore."
In regards to Night Castle as an album: It's alright. As has been said here, the general problem is that there's just so little actual quality spread out so thin over such a mass expanse of album. It drags quite a bit in many places. Even its best songs tend to meander a bit instead of just getting to the point. For how long its supposedly been in the works, it just comes off as rough/unfinished, bloated, and uninspired. Quite a disappointment, considering apparently unlike a lot of other people, I really like The lost Christmas Eve.
"I can't really sum up my thoughts on this topic in a small sentiment. I am generally against it though. I am militantly against the rerecording of Believe.
I've heard all the bits about "Well TSO gets more people exposed to Savatage's music", which I agree, it does, but not the way most people think. The majority of people who go to see TSO shows are not metal/genuine music fans who care enough to bother listening to "The band that the TSO guys are from". They just want to go to see TSO once a year, get into the spirit of Christmas, and go home. Maybe spin the albums a few times around the holidays, but they don't really care about the music and where it came from. Not in the sense that Savatage fans care about it. There are two types of people: Trans-Siberian Orchestra fans and Savatage fans who also like/support Trans-Siberian Orchestra.
I didn't really mind the rerecording of Back to a Reason, and I don't mind the redone Mozart and Madness either. One, because those songs had nothing to do with Criss, but also because they didn't have a huge stake in the emotional legacy of Savatage. No one got personally offended by the band rerecording those songs or releasing Sarajevo and it becoming a big hit.
However, I don't like the idea of taking Criss out of Prelude to Madness. I understand that in theory all Prelude really was was a variation on a classical piece anyway, so I can't really bitch that much, but it's still the thought. They could've just done a totally NEW arrangement rather than making it seeming like they were trying to just redo it for the sake of redoing it.
Believe is a whole other story. This is the only song to have ever made me cry, and it has actually done so more than once. And from my experience with many other people, I realize I am far from alone. This song means the world and so much more to people - but it's not just the song. It's the legacy as well as the power and spirit Jon Oliva brought to the vocal performance. As with most things he sings, Jon made you feel the passion and struggle, he forced you to feel those feelings. The thought of taking Jon out in favor of some dime-a-dozen gravelly-voiced "Rock Ballad" singer is just preposterous to me. Also, let's not forget that the lyrics to Believe are engraved on Criss Oliva's goddamn grave. Then again, so is the guitar graphic which has merely been turned into a marketing graphic for the cash-grabbing Trans-Siberian Orchestra.
In summation, I think TSO has lost the spirit. There isn't anything genuine about what they're doing anymore. Some of their material of the past really did live and breathe with the HEART of Savatage - but that's long gone. Replaced by choreographed Christmas lights and overblown pyrotechnics. There is no spirit of Christmas left, there is no spirit of life left. It's honestly really sad. It's just an overblown money-machine anymore."
In regards to Night Castle as an album: It's alright. As has been said here, the general problem is that there's just so little actual quality spread out so thin over such a mass expanse of album. It drags quite a bit in many places. Even its best songs tend to meander a bit instead of just getting to the point. For how long its supposedly been in the works, it just comes off as rough/unfinished, bloated, and uninspired. Quite a disappointment, considering apparently unlike a lot of other people, I really like The lost Christmas Eve.
Bear
Got Shred??
I saw TSO west for the first time last week. It was an awesome show, I am still reeling over it. Great pyrotechnics,laser lights, video imagery, music and vocal perfrmances and one person in particular. A super star in the making in one Caitlin Moe, violin player, what a hot little rocker that one is..... I am glad that we got Al Pitrelli on this side, he ripps!!! The other guitar player Angus was pretty badass too. Al wifes ripps ass on the keys!!! Great show all around except for one persson whom I have lost faith in and his vocals are not even close what they used to be. JSS, his two songs were annoying as hell... Anyways I cant wait to see them back on tour next spring!
Bear
Bear
I know Paul has spent a grotesque amount of time and money at morrisound. We were there in 07' and TSO was working on this. We were there in 09' this year and he was still working on it. LOL several months at a time - KA CHING! sometimes I wonder why it took so long to do a record, I know we did two in the time of night castle and Jon did several as well, sooo where the time is spent nobody knows
I guess if I had money like Paul I would spend that much time and money too though, just because I could afford it, and because morrisound is just plain sick 
As always, Christmas Eve and Other Stories and The Christmas Attic are in regular rotation for me this time of year. While listening to CEAOS the other day, I was thinking how much better the quality is over The Lost Christmas Eve and Nightcastle. The first two albums and Beethoven's Last Night are light years ahead of the last two, period. I agree with DT Jeff, that the whole heart and soul of what Paul was trying to do 13 years ago has slipped through the cracks. I think alot of it is to do with TSO touring every single year, which I've always disagreed with. TSO needs room to breathe, but it looks like money trumps that.
~Brian~
~Brian~
DTJeff
I Am My Nation
I really do like The lost Christmas Eve, but I admit it's more of a processed thing, even there. I just happen to absolutely love a few of the songs (title track, What Child Is This, Back to a Reason, Christmas Dreams, For the Sake of Our Brother). I prefer it to The Christmas Attic, personally. But there's no question in my mind that Beethoven's last Night sits firmly on top with the debut in a solid second.
drmetal8
Graphic Design
Saw the 3pm show here in Orlando yesterday from the 3rd row. Great show. Of course, the second set was better. They played all the best stuff from Nightcastle and even Paul O'Neill jammed on stage for several songs. It was hard to hear the Savatage classic (that was called "Prelude To Madness") and not hear Hall of the Mountain King afterward. I almost expected them to play it, they were jamming so many Sava-classics!
johan68
Member
Just came back from the early Tampa show. Quite interesting to see Joe Walsh come out and play 2 songs at the end...
LunaTEKKE
Madness Reigns
- Mar 23, 2006
- 1,220
- 8
- 38
I just got back from a trip to Vegas with a bunch of folks from the TSO Yahoo! Discussion group, and there is definitely a third type: TSO fans who are open-minded enough to give Savatage a try. Some of these folks even find themselves enjoying other metal bands!
When I first saw TSO in 2003, Al gave a shout-out to the Savatage fans in the audience...and I wish that TSO would continue to acknowledge their "roots". However, I do think that the Savatage message is trickling out slowly.
I have to disagree with the "cash-grabbing" comment. TSO continues to donate to local charitable organizations. And the summer before last, when gas prices were INSANE, Paul was still committed to making the show bigger and better and still keeping ticket prices reasonable. While TSO is no doubt profitable for all involved, it's not just about the money, IMO.
Pellaz
Tigron of Immanion
I personally saw Paul O'Neill, upon hearing that the lady in front of me was involved in childrens' charities with her church, personally hand her a $100 bill from his own wallet, quietly saying "This is for the children." There were no other witnesses except me and my friend (and longtime Ytsejammer) Phil Carter, so he wasn't doing it to grandstand.
No, it's not alll about the money.
dionysus11
MSTmike3K
Sir Exar Kun
Member
That's awesome! Which group is he with, east or west? We're seeing the east coast group on January 3 here in Columbus....
He is with East, and he is most awesome! Brings a lot of personality to the stage along with his talent.
I will be in Columbus too-got to see the first one of the year in Youngstown, and now looking forward to the last one in Columbus!
And props to DTJeff, who so eloquently expressed what I have been feeling for two years now about the whole Believe thing. Thank you!
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