Transgender

[waif]

Totally wrong, vanity in a woman is a natural process and how they attract a mate. Same as masculinity is in men. I know you spend way to much time swallowing the half a story you are recieving from the liberal cry baby section that likes to leave out the facts.

Man, you are a blast from the past. Like, before they let women vote and wear pants and stuff.

A crossdresser in school is forcing everyone to deal with their problem.

Stop using the word problem. It's not a problem. Losing your homework is a problem. Getting shanked is a problem. Wearing a skirt is an eccentricity.

You have to be in the hall with them, you have to be in class with them, you have to ride the bus with them

Dear god! What next? Will our vulnerable teenagers be forced to make EYE CONTACT?

.... speaking of the bus.... you are now exposing young impressionable children to them.

Young impressionable 15-18 year olds. Shame, shame.

Useing "staring at them" is a typical narrow minded liberal waaa responce used as a distraction from the matters at hand. Im sure you would find most have a hard time looking at them or bearing the sight of them.

Please rephrase this in a way I can understand. I think what you're saying is that saying the words "staring at them" is a typical weakling communist traitor liberal faggot way of slipping out of arguments with brave manly honest patriotic republicans.

So as neither one of you have answered, how is it you know so much about this, are you exposed to cross dressers everyday and know them personally ? Have you had a crossdresser killed in your school ? Then you could always explain the throwing of ones voice and straping of genitals between ones legs...... natural or a psychological ?

Did you read the bit where I pointed out that anecdotal evidence is useless?

Physical harm ? physical harm is a joke, the body heals, its the psychological damage that is the problem

Like with murder. They don't die of wounds, they die of psychological scarring.

.... prime example... rape... there are many others

Actually, that's more or less the only case in which the trauma is worse than the physical damage.

You yourself indicated somewhere here that these problems could be caused by occurances in post birth development, tramatic or dramatic occurences in life. Now are you going to imply that exposing young children to this doesnt open them up to developement issues ?

Yes, I am, actually. For one thing, we're talking about teenagers. Transexuality does not occur before reproductive maturity (i.e. high school).

Are you going to tell me children are not impressionable ? Teenagers are not impressionable ?

Teenagers are not so impressionable that seeing a guy in a dress is going to fuck them over for life. Otherwise, 2 girls 1 cup would have singlehandedly destroyed our society.

I suppose you could then explain why children of parents that are big drinkers have children that develope drinking problems, or any other moral issues, such as crude behavior, lack of respect and many more.

Because their role models are assholes. High school kids aren't going to be being raised by some transexual kid. They will see him. Oh, the horror!

Then when you get done explaining how Im full of shit again and how it doesnt matter, explain how we come by drug problems. Is it not through exposure, everyone knows its wrong and a dead end street, yet it happens. Who's most prone to it happening too ? People with stability problems ? Drug addicts dont hurt anyone but themselves ? Not even the person they convince its no big deal?

Okay. First off, this is a bad analogy. Secondly, reasons for abusing drugs vary. Peer pressure is a major one. Boredom and depression are also common factors. Someone with stability problems is more likely to use drugs. Drug addicts hurt people, not drug addiction. I know a lot of people who are responsible about drug use. People who are irresponsible can wind up hurting themselves and others, but just because something doesn't work quite right doesn't mean it could never work. However, this is not a debate about drugs, so please just let this die.

 

[WeAreTheLastMen]

for the love of god, close this thread

 

[razoredge]

Man, you are a blast from the past. Like, before they let women vote and wear pants and stuff. Stop using the word problem. It's not a problem. Losing your homework is a problem. Getting shanked is a problem. Wearing a skirt is an eccentricity. Dear god! What next? Will our vulnerable teenagers be forced to make EYE CONTACT? Young impressionable 15-18 year olds. Shame, shame.Please rephrase this in a way I can understand. I think what you're saying is that saying the words "staring at them" is a typical weakling communist traitor liberal faggot way of slipping out of arguments with brave manly honest patriotic republicans.Did you read the bit where I pointed out that anecdotal evidence is useless? Like with murder. They don't die of wounds, they die of psychological scarring. Actually, that's more or less the only case in which the trauma is worse than the physical damage. Yes, I am, actually. For one thing, we're talking about teenagers. Transexuality does not occur before reproductive maturity (i.e. high school). Teenagers are not so impressionable that seeing a guy in a dress is going to fuck them over for life. Otherwise, 2 girls 1 cup would have singlehandedly destroyed our society. Because their role models are assholes. High school kids aren't going to be being raised by some transexual kid. They will see him. Oh, the horror! Okay. First off, this is a bad analogy. Secondly, reasons for abusing drugs vary. Peer pressure is a major one. Boredom and depression are also common factors. Someone with stability problems is more likely to use drugs. Drug addicts hurt people, not drug addiction. I know a lot of people who are responsible about drug use. People who are irresponsible can wind up hurting themselves and others, but just because something doesn't work quite right doesn't mean it could never work. However, this is not a debate about drugs, so please just let this die.

well isnt this a laughable attempt at delving into the human mind. Great philosphopy if you've been hiding in a box your whole life. Ah, the depth of it all the thought involved... oh wait, thats right, you havent even started your life yet......

 

[BlackMetalWhiteGuy]

Man, you are a blast from the past. Like, before they let women vote and wear pants and stuff.

Call me old fashioned, but I still prefer it when women don't wear pants

 

[razoredge]

Call me old fashioned, but I still prefer it when women don't wear pants

good one

Originally Posted by WeAreInFlames
Man, you are a blast from the past. Like, before they let women vote and wear pants and stuff.

and this was a great cop out, but prolly had no better way to cover up the lack of ability to comprehend, even though all the scatered replies still made it obvious

 

[JoeVice]

and goddamnit, thanks to this thread, every time i click on the philosopher link, i'm greeted with a gay jock exercise advertisement banner...two of them sometimes!!!!

 

[razoredge]

^

 

[Norsemaiden]

and goddamnit, thanks to this thread, every time i click on the philosopher link, i'm greeted with a gay jock exercise advertisement banner...two of them sometimes!!!!

Yes that is really horrible. And he's probably still got the female genitalia, but at least they're sparing us that.

 

[Satan is My Stewardess]

In the real world, we call the 'trans' phenomenon 'mental illness.'

 

[thrashgirl]

In the real world, we call the 'trans' phenomenon 'mental illness.'

In the real world it's called "gender dysphoria." And according to the APA it is classified in the same order of afflictions as AD(H)D. So transgendered people are no more "mentally ill" than me and probably several of your closest friends and relatives, not to mention a large percentage of coworkers, classmates, etc.

 

[Satan is My Stewardess]

They can classify however they want, but when people have a distorted sense of reality and believe that they are something they are not, whether that be Napoleon or a woman, it's a delusional psychosis. The fact that this particular psychosis has been socially regularized for political reasons doesn't alter the underlying reality.

 

[thrashgirl]

They can classify however they want, but when people have a distorted sense of reality and believe that they are something they are not, whether that be Napoleon or a woman, it's a delusional psychosis. The fact that this particular psychosis has been socially regularized for political reasons doesn't alter the underlying reality.

Transgendered people don't "believe they are something they are not." They "identify as, or desire to live and be accepted as, a member of the gender opposite to that assigned at birth."

It has nothing to do with whether or not someone can comprehend their own biologically assigned gender. Rather, they feel that their biological gender does not match their mental/emotional gender identity.

Also, transgenderism is anything but "socially regularized."

 

[Satan is My Stewardess]

And that differs from the folks who want to be identified as Napoleon or Elvis or a dog how, except in the degree of public acceptance extended to them? However you cut it, it still amounts to a distortion in the perception of reality, which is the very definition of a psychotic illness. The fact that it enjoys a level of social tolerance that we don't extend to similarly unhinged people in no way changes the fact that it is a symptom of mental illness.

 

[BlackMetalWhiteGuy]

And that differs from the folks who want to be identified as Napoleon or Elvis or a dog how, except in the degree of public acceptance extended to them? However you cut it, it still amounts to a distortion in the perception of reality, which is the very definition of a psychotic illness. The fact that it enjoys a level of social tolerance that we don't extend to similarly unhinged people in no way changes the fact that it is a symptom of mental illness.

Social tolerance of the gender dysphoric is only new in western civilizations. If you travel to many Asian nations, specifically Thailand, you'll notice that there's an entire tranny culture, which probably has something to do with why so much American tranny porn features Thai models. They may be fighting for recognition in the US and Europe, but it's been an accepted practice in many cultures for centuries now and some of them even have additional gender words for men who identify as women and vise versa.

Also, if you watch the movie "The Protector" the lead villainess is played by an actress who is biologically male. The fact that the person is gender dysphoric isn't mentioned in the movie, nor is it relevent to the character, because it so well accepted by Thai culture that it doesn't make a difference.

 

[thrashgirl]

And that differs from the folks who want to be identified as Napoleon or Elvis or a dog how, except in the degree of public acceptance extended to them?

My point was that transgendered people don't "believe" that they are a biological gender which they are not; they internally identify with and wish to be perceived as a gender they biologically are not.

But to answer your question, internally identifying with a gender that you are not (biologically) is not the same thing as internally identifying with or believing you are a specific person or thing. While I'm sure plenty of people have believed they were someone or something that they could not physically be, I don't see how one could conceivably identify as (i.e., contend that who they are, emotionally, differs from who they are physically) a specific person, whose psychological/emotional identity is accessible only to that person, or an animal, whose psychological/emotional identity is thus far incomprehensible to humans.

However you cut it, it still amounts to a distortion in the perception of reality, which is the very definition of a psychotic illness.

Again, transgendered people don't "beleive" they are physically anything other than their biological gender. "A distortion in the perception of reality" entails believing that something imagined is real (i.e., part of reality, which implies physicallity) or vice versa, which is not the case.

The fact that it enjoys a level of social tolerance that we don't extend to similarly unhinged people in no way changes the fact that it is a symptom of mental illness.

Being a highly ambiguous term, "mental illness" typically carries a negative connotaion implying impairment or degneration of comprehension and/or functionality. Perhaps you contend that transgenderism itself is just that, but I doubt you could verify it.

 

[Satan is My Stewardess]

The line between identity and belief is so fine as to render your objections simple semantic carping. If you've got a dick, and you think of yourself as a woman and expect others to do the same, you're mentally ill, period.

Being a highly ambiguous term, "mental illness" typically carries a negative connotaion implying impairment or degneration of comprehension and/or functionality. Perhaps you contend that transgenderism itself is just that, but I doubt you could verify it.

I mean, a crippling identity crisis that can only be overcome ultimately with extraordinarily expensive self-mutilation can't possibly be considered an impairment of functionality. No way no how. Huh uh. Nope.

 

[Satan is My Stewardess]

Social tolerance of the gender dysphoric is only new in western civilizations. If you travel to many Asian nations, specifically Thailand, you'll notice that there's an entire tranny culture, which probably has something to do with why so much American tranny porn features Thai models. They may be fighting for recognition in the US and Europe, but it's been an accepted practice in many cultures for centuries now and some of them even have additional gender words for men who identify as women and vise versa.

Child prostitution is also an accepted social norm in Thailand, as is domestic abuse. These are still negative social pathologies, so what, exactly, is your point?

 

[razoredge]

Now THIS I am actually enjoying.... gonna go pop me some corn

 

[BlackMetalWhiteGuy]

Child prostitution is also an accepted social norm in Thailand, as is domestic abuse. These are still negative social pathologies, so what, exactly, is your point?

Child prostitution, while far more common, is not an accepted social norm, it's something that they have to live with in many cases as its the only source of income for many families. You may be interested to know that a large percentage of clientel in the child prostitution industry is actually sex tourists from the US and Europe. Domestic abuse is also not accepted, but it is underreported because of the financial and social situations in many rural areas. Gender dysphoria is a completely different situation because it's common and accepted throughout all social tiers and gender reassignment surgery is something that people choose for themselves after they have money.

 

[thrashgirl]

The line between identity and belief is so fine as to render your objections simple semantic carping. If you've got a dick, and you think of yourself as a woman and expect others to do the same, you're mentally ill, period.

How is the distinction between failing to comprehend one's own anatomy (i.e., cannot see what is there) and feeling that one's physical gender does not reflect their emotional one (which does not deny any imperical facts such as 'I have male/female parts') a "fine line?"

And what parameters for "mentally ill" are met simply by identifying with a gender other than the one assigned at birth?

I mean, a crippling identity crisis that can only be overcome ultimately with extraordinarily expensive self-mutilation can't possibly be considered an impairment of functionality. No way no how. Huh uh. Nope.

The first problem with this statement is that you assume that surgery is the only way to satisfy gender dysphoria. The overwhelming majority of transgendered people cannot afford or do not meet the parameters for gender reassignment surgery, and therefore never undergo the procedure. So surgery is in no way the only option.

Also, if sexual reassignment qualifies as "self-mutilation" then are people who have elective cosmetic surgery in some way insane, also? Granted gender reassignment is more invasive than most cosmetic surgeries, but conceptually it's no different--a voluntary way to alter one's outward physical appearance.

Finally, in what way are transgendered people impaired? What about transgenderism cripples someone's ability to function? What can a transgendered individual not do that any other non-handicapped person can?