Triggers vs the real deal (mics)

[The Front Studio]

I'm about to spend my savings on a set of triggers (ddrum accoustic pro) and a set of overhead mics.

a lot of people I know are into audio engineering and they say that's the worst way to start as a recording engineer, and it will be nothing compared to the real deal. I know there are a lot of solid productions which are kick-ass and have no sm57 or whatever on snare, toms, etc... but now I'm asking for your two cents on this subject. I don't have the greatest 'live room' and I'm also planning on purchasing mics to track drums one by one after I bought my triggers. Plus I'm a little bit too cautious so I'm not going to mention any productions of which I THINK the kit is 100% triggered, but if you'd like to mention a mix like that maybe I have more reference material.

I also have a quick question on the overheads. I'm keeping it low budget, but as I'm very content of my Sontronics STC-2 for vocals (and screams as well actually ) I'm thinking on purchasing the STC-1 as a pair for overheads.
I don't know if anyone's familiar with the company and with the quality of having STC-1's as overheads.

In the end it's the experience you've built up (in general AND with your gear) that will make or break your mix, but collecting a lot of useful opinions is always... useful hah :Smokin:

I'd love to read your opinions and thanks in advance!

 

[PhilR]

I'd rather work with a set of cheapass drum mics than contemplate having to trigger an entire drumkit every time I record. Augmentation is easy, but making an entire sequence of samples sound natural is a pain in the arse.

 

[Fragle]

i'd start with triggers for toms and kick, and mics for overheads and snare. add tom mics and a kick mic later down the road when you saved more cash.
IME, kicks tend to be replaced 100% most of the time, and with toms it's largely a matter of playing and recording technique....a good drummer and a good engineer can get 100% natural toms to cut just fine, take one (or both) parts of that out of the equation and you usually end up with a boing, basketball-thud, or whatever....so the point i'm trying to make is that toms will get replaced very often anyways.
snare hower HAS TO BE MIC'ed. there is a SHITLOAD of difference between a 100% sample and a at least 50% real snare sound.
same thing goes for overheads.

as for 100% triggered productions, the only one that comes to mind is dimmu borgir - puritanical euphoric misanthropia. IIRC i read an interview where nordström talked about this fantastic sounding 8k drumset that barker insisted on having triggered all the way, no mics except for overheads.

 

[AllanD]

Any Sturgis band is pretty much all triggered. If you are looking for that sound, then for sure just get OH's and triggers. I don't know much about OH's, but I'd say that my Nt5's do the job decently.

 

[Dollarosa]

I would start with microphones (they can easily be replaced/blended with samples later). +1 for nt5s, I love mine

 

[The Front Studio]

i'd start with triggers for toms and kick, and mics for overheads and snare. add tom mics and a kick mic later down the road when you saved more cash.
IME, kicks tend to be replaced 100% most of the time, and with toms it's largely a matter of playing and recording technique....a good drummer and a good engineer can get 100% natural toms to cut just fine, take one (or both) parts of that out of the equation and you usually end up with a boing, basketball-thud, or whatever....so the point i'm trying to make is that toms will get replaced very often anyways.
snare hower HAS TO BE MIC'ed. there is a SHITLOAD of difference between a 100% sample and a at least 50% real snare sound.
same thing goes for overheads.

as for 100% triggered productions, the only one that comes to mind is dimmu borgir - puritanical euphoric misanthropia. IIRC i read an interview where nordström talked about this fantastic sounding 8k drumset that barker insisted on having triggered all the way, no mics except for overheads.

Do you also mic the bottom or only the top of the snare?
And yes I'm gonna get myself an sm57 for snare.
A friend of mine can get it a few euro's cheaper so it's just a few months of saving.
Btw I agree on the kick and toms, I've heard that a lot (especially the toms).

EDIT: Tanks to the rest for the replies as well!

 

[colonel kurtz]

Do you also mic the bottom or only the top of the snare?

top and bottom, always, no exceptions!

 

[The Front Studio]

top and bottom, always, no exceptions!

What mic do you prefer for bottom micing?

 

[cloy26]

snare hower HAS TO BE MIC'ed. there is a SHITLOAD of difference between a 100% sample and a at least 50% real snare sound.

 

[madbutcher]

Couldn't just buy mics, then mic everything and just sound replace until you get good at mic'ing drums? More work and have to buy sound replace software also obviously, but more to learn that way imo.

 

[Let it burn...]

Triggered drums will never get you the "feel" of the drummer and his kit. It's the small imperfections in the playing that make or break a drum sound.

I rarely use triggers anymore. I've found that most of the replacement plugins add some ms of latency which is a bitch. Sometimes I'll layer a kick or some toms when they sound absolutely horrible but never replace 100%

 

[MetalSound]

i always mic drums when i record them. but in mixing i end up replacing bd and snare nearly all of the time 100%. toms i normally leave natural but it always depends on the drummer.

 

[The Front Studio]

Thanks for the replies.
I already said it but I'll say it again.
The triggers are kind of a temporary solution, my goal is to buy mics and learn how to mic drums well, and it's always nice to know a lot about hardware.
don't worry, when those triggers are bought I'm immediatly starting to save for decent drum mics hah!

 

[Let it burn...]

You can always rent stuff. That's how I got by the first couple of years

Basic drum mics are cheap to rent

 

[guitarguru777]

Go with Microphones, Audix makes a decent set of Drum Mics for about $350 for a 5 piece kit. Well worth the investment.

Microphones give you the freedom to work on your drum tones as you record, and when the tones arent that good in the beginning you can still use things like Trigger, Drumagog, or apTrigga to blend / replace, whatever you want to do.

Going triggers right from the get go will never teach you how to properly mic and record a drumkit.

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Audix-FP5-Drum-Mic-Pack-889577-i1475473.gc

Its not worth spending money on triggers especially when you can do the same things with Microphones that you can do with triggers. Mics give you the best of both worlds for less money. The initial cost is higher for sure, but over time even shit mics destroy triggers.

 

[The Front Studio]

Go with Microphones, Audix makes a decent set of Drum Mics for about $350 for a 5 piece kit. Well worth the investment.

Microphones give you the freedom to work on your drum tones as you record, and when the tones arent that good in the beginning you can still use things like Trigger, Drumagog, or apTrigga to blend / replace, whatever you want to do.

Going triggers right from the get go will never teach you how to properly mic and record a drumkit.

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Audix-FP5-Drum-Mic-Pack-889577-i1475473.gc

Its not worth spending money on triggers especially when you can do the same things with Microphones that you can do with triggers. Mics give you the best of both worlds for less money. The initial cost is higher for sure, but over time even shit mics destroy triggers.

http://www.musicstore.com/nl_NL/BEF/Audix-FP-5-Drummikrofon-Set/art-PAH0009505-000
Found it on an european store hah.
Thanks dude!

 

[The Front Studio]

I kept looking on Musicstore's site, and I found this one:
http://www.musicstore.com/nl_NL/BEF...00?recId=9f10d067-55b5-4d84-b845-8cff05bc2565
I really like it's pricing considering it's Shure, but I still don't know what to think of it.

EDIT: Now I know why it's cheaper, it's missing one mic for snare. guess I'll just have to buy the sm57 then hah

 

[colonel kurtz]

What mic do you prefer for bottom micing?

my go-to on snare is an i5 on top, AT 4033 on bottom

 

[Fragle]

sorry, but if you disgree with that then please elaborate on WHY you think so.

i stand by my opinion, a real snare track will ALWAYS sound better than a 100% fake one. you can spend all the time in the world playing around with different samples and stuff, but you'll never be able to mimic the vast amount of different sounds that you get with a real drummer playing a real snare. especially true if the drummer does blast beats.
btw, i'm not saying that you should always keep the snare 100% original (depending on the style), sample augmentation definitely is your friend.

 

[Fragle]

top and bottom, always, no exceptions!

+1. much easier to get a great natural snare sound with both heads miced up.