Using triggers, and morals....
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JeffTD
Senhor Testiculo
While I agree, you've also gotta keep your interests in mind. Just because the client is totally psyched on some POS mix doesn't mean you should have that POS floating around with your name on it.
You've gotta make them happy, but also make sure you're putting out good work. If they insist on mediocre crap in order to keep things "all natural," "organic," or 'kvlt"... probably not the best band for you to be recording.
smy1
Member
LSD-Studio
HCAF crusher
::XeS::
Member
People are stupid. Period.
There are guys that don't want triggers because they don't want a "fake sound", because they want a cd only to tell to their friends "Hear! It's me!"
And if you explain them what is a trigger, in which manner you use the triggers, etc...they don't understand.
Sometime ago I offered my services to a friend's band....I have ddrum trigger, alesis dm5, mics....and they had some "Random" mics that they used in the wrong place (toms toke with OH mics, kick toke with snare mic, etc...)...they refuse my services because the drummer didn't want triggers...because "I wanna learn to play before using triggers".....
I heard a drums sample recorded by them and it sucks...I don't understand, for some people it's better to sound like shit that use triggers...
There are guys that don't want triggers because they don't want a "fake sound", because they want a cd only to tell to their friends "Hear! It's me!"
And if you explain them what is a trigger, in which manner you use the triggers, etc...they don't understand.
Sometime ago I offered my services to a friend's band....I have ddrum trigger, alesis dm5, mics....and they had some "Random" mics that they used in the wrong place (toms toke with OH mics, kick toke with snare mic, etc...)...they refuse my services because the drummer didn't want triggers...because "I wanna learn to play before using triggers".....
I heard a drums sample recorded by them and it sucks...I don't understand, for some people it's better to sound like shit that use triggers...
LSD-Studio
HCAF crusher
CJWall
Member
EXACTLY. Hell, when I was a teen I thought this exact thing because, well, that's just what I had heard and had no reason to believe otherwise.
people are a bit taken back when I explain what triggers do. It's so deceptively simple, haha.
there is this strange stigma of triggers being akin to 'cheating'... sigh.
jesterroot4
Member
i hate it when i show someone a recording i did of my band, and they'll say ''wow that drums sound is amazing! how did you make it sound so good?''
i'll reply, ' i triggered most of his kit with lush samples'
and straight away they say
''SO ITS ALL FAKE! HE DIDNT PLAY IT haha its not him''
and they keep saying this really fast not giving me chance to explain what this means.
as soon as the word ''trigger'' comes up, they start saying ''its fake, he didnt record it live etc...
GRRRR some one needs to write up a paragraph to explain all this realy quick to turn into a poster or metal warning sign or something.
haha
i'll reply, ' i triggered most of his kit with lush samples'
and straight away they say
''SO ITS ALL FAKE! HE DIDNT PLAY IT haha its not him''
and they keep saying this really fast not giving me chance to explain what this means.
as soon as the word ''trigger'' comes up, they start saying ''its fake, he didnt record it live etc...
GRRRR some one needs to write up a paragraph to explain all this realy quick to turn into a poster or metal warning sign or something.
haha
CJWall
Member
no need to explain yourself. just tell them 'lots of hard work and a little luck'.
that's all you need. why set yourself up for bullshit if the person doesn't even know what they're talking about?
wasted breath, IMO.
that's all you need. why set yourself up for bullshit if the person doesn't even know what they're talking about?
wasted breath, IMO.
In all fairness, though, you must admit that triggers are in some ways cheating because of the perfection of the sound that is produced no matter how poor the hit that triggers it (assuming you're going for 100% sample replacement). I mean, if a drummer has a wimpy, off-centered snare hit half the time, or a tom hit at a shitty angle, that's all a trigger needs to crank out a perfect, powerful hit every time. Just my thoughts, though see my post earlier in the thread for my thoughts on that arrogant, insecure little cunt of a drummer that e.a. first mentioned.
EDIT: Just talked to my dad, who's a professional trumpet player, full-tenured professor, and was the first trumpeter to get a Doctorate in Musical Arts from Juilliard SHAZAM (sorry, couldn't resist bragging
), and he made a good point that for a brass player, even sampling one note would make him uncomfortable, because they generate the sound themselves with their bodies, facial structure, and, of course, lips. However, since drummers (and guitarists) are simply manipulating the sound-generating thing by striking a skin (or strumming a string), there's a lot less personality in the tone itself, at least as far as a strong hit or a chugged power chord is concerned.
EDIT: Just talked to my dad, who's a professional trumpet player, full-tenured professor, and was the first trumpeter to get a Doctorate in Musical Arts from Juilliard SHAZAM (sorry, couldn't resist bragging
), and he made a good point that for a brass player, even sampling one note would make him uncomfortable, because they generate the sound themselves with their bodies, facial structure, and, of course, lips. However, since drummers (and guitarists) are simply manipulating the sound-generating thing by striking a skin (or strumming a string), there's a lot less personality in the tone itself, at least as far as a strong hit or a chugged power chord is concerned.i've had to deal with shitty musicians who think they're great more than i'd like to admit...and basically, i'll either slip some samples in there and not tell them, or let their shitty work speak for itself. if a shitty band insists on having a shitty recording, that's their prerogative. i wouldn't ever advertise the fact that i worked with them...but if someone was to listen to a bunch of work by a single engineer, and only a couple things here and there really sucked it up, i think most reasonable people would attritube it to the band sucking - at least one would hope so.
edit: and metaltastic's right...i've noticed that any type of skilled/trained player, be it brass, piano, or whatever, takes way more exception to having their shit edited and overdubbed than your average metal/rock band guy.
jesus69lol
Senior Member
- Apr 13, 2007
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My whole attitude on things like this is I don't give a fuck. Hey, if it sounds good what does it matter where it comes from. Sampled snares, autotune, programmed drums, whatever. If it enhances the quality of my work I'm going to use it, period. If that pisses off a few puritans in the process then well, hey, whatever. Let them have their not-as-good-sounding mixes.
Loren Littlejohn
Lover of all boobage.
It's the same mentality of:
"Pro tools sounds like shit, it only sounds good if you do it to tape."
Drummers are pretty stupid on the whole though, they want you to make them sound awsome with thier shit kits and busted heads and cymbols.
"Pro tools sounds like shit, it only sounds good if you do it to tape."
Drummers are pretty stupid on the whole though, they want you to make them sound awsome with thier shit kits and busted heads and cymbols.
ElektricEyez
Member
- Aug 29, 2007
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Here's my .02. If you have a drummer that is "That" anal about "his" sound, then it probably means he can play his kit pretty good. Most drummers don't have that attitude, and usually need that doctoring up. Plus, it sounds like he has a really good kit as it is, so why not just make a sample of his snare for just his projects, so it's always his signature sound.
The only downside I can think of is that sometimes you do need to tweak stuff to get it to fit right in the mix, which means sampling. In that case, why not just throw down the cash and get a decent snare and make your own samples with it. Shoot even just go buy one from like GC and take it back the next day after you got your sample, maybe even go through the entire store HAHAHAH. Maybe, that's taking things a bit too far, but I can see his point, but I can see your point as well. Beacuse I always get in there and mess with peoples settings when tracking.
I know that I didn't quite answer your question, but I am kinda going against the grain here, and if he feels that he is that unique, then I would suggest to give him the benefit of the doubt, because he might be one of those types of people that are so stubborn that you could probably never change his mind. In the end, he gets a good record, and you get paid, and comes back for more - and everyone has fun doing it. Let him keep his signature snare sound - there are many more fish in the ocean, or snares at the music store.
The only downside I can think of is that sometimes you do need to tweak stuff to get it to fit right in the mix, which means sampling. In that case, why not just throw down the cash and get a decent snare and make your own samples with it. Shoot even just go buy one from like GC and take it back the next day after you got your sample, maybe even go through the entire store HAHAHAH. Maybe, that's taking things a bit too far, but I can see his point, but I can see your point as well. Beacuse I always get in there and mess with peoples settings when tracking.
I know that I didn't quite answer your question, but I am kinda going against the grain here, and if he feels that he is that unique, then I would suggest to give him the benefit of the doubt, because he might be one of those types of people that are so stubborn that you could probably never change his mind. In the end, he gets a good record, and you get paid, and comes back for more - and everyone has fun doing it. Let him keep his signature snare sound - there are many more fish in the ocean, or snares at the music store.
