Varg Vikernes committed suicide?

[all_sins_undone]

That is hilarious, coming from you.

id ask you why you thought it was funny, but no one, including myself, is interested in your thoughts

 

[outerone]

Would it be correct to define this guy as an ENORMOUS troll? Or is he just fucked in the head?

hahahaah hes gotta be a giant troll, with fire coming out of his ass:zombie:

 

[outerone]

I find it so funny that christian follow the bible so passionately. I mean wasnt it written by a bunch of Romans a few hundred years after Jesus lived. And as we all know the Romans were corrupt as hell. So Im sure if some dude writing the old testament really liked pizza and felt that the whole world should only eat pizza, then Im sure he didnt think twice in adding that Jesus really loved pizza and felt that eating it was the way to heaven.

Christians follow the bible like its text that dropped out of the sky or was the personal journal oj Jesus.

 

[Lothlorien]

You walked in circles and really explained nothing, rascism is not a respectable ideology, it is extremely lrrational and harmful, stfu

in the words of don corleone, spot on.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

Wow. The Troll Fairy did a number on this thread.

 

[AshDLS]

This won't make much sense to non-christians.

Don't worry, none of it does.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

EDIT: the Catholic church are not a group of Christians, in fact, most organized forms of the Christian "religion" are practicing satanists, unfortunately, many followers of these churches are oblivious. Satan began the creation of a false church shortly after Jesus' crucifiction. This won't make much sense to non-christians. It is, however, obvious when you look at their actions and false piety.

Um... it's great and all to use "Satan" as the reason for the existence of Satanists, but you're giving that crackpot movement way too much credit. They're just a bunch of idiots who are pissed off at Christianity and want to look cool by worshipping the antithesis of God, which makes absolutely no sense. It's just like any other devil's-advocate position you'll find in real life. The only reason it exists is as a reaction and parody to the original source.

I don't actually believe in Satan, God, or any of this stuff, I just wanted to point out that there's a perfectly reasonable non-supernatural explanation for LaVey's Church of Satan, and all its various predecessors. Doesn't this make more sense than figuring Satan into it?

After all, if that's the best Satan can do... then his influence on the world is far less significant than any Christian has ever led me to believe.

 

[Braighs]

@ash: lol erk
@vihris: Satan is the reason for the existance of CATHOLICS. It was a responce to HUBSTER's post regarding CATHOLICS as CRISTIANS.
I did say SATANISTS, but I should have said FALSE CHRISTIANS to make myself CLEARER.

You raised an interesting question though. IS Satan responsible for satanism?
I'll sleep on it.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

You raised an interesting question though. IS Satan responsible for satanism?
I'll sleep on it.

Glad to hear.

By the way, there are non-supernatural reasons to explain Catholicism too, if you look beyond the Satan concept. I'm going to argue this for anything you say Satan causes, though, so you get the idea (hopefully).

 

[Braighs]

Some Christians believe that humans are born somewhere between good and evil. Satan temps us toward evil. The holy spirit does the opposite. Of course, if you don't believe in these, we have evil men and good men that make the world go round. The world goes round anyway, so the worldview in this matter is inconsequential. You can explain it either way. Just as you can explain creation with the big bang, or with Genesis chapter 1. Or both if you are really creative.
note: as a physicist, I'm inclined to agree with the big bang.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

Some Christians believe that humans are born somewhere between good and evil. Satan temps us toward evil. The holy spirit does the opposite. Of course, if you don't believe in these, we have evil men and good men that make the world go round. The world goes round anyway, so the worldview in this matter is inconsequential.

Well... actually, it's not just God and Satan I don't believe in. I don't believe in good or evil either. The notion of good and evil implies that there is a certain way of life, or course of action, which is inherently proper, and that people who stray from that are giving in to some kind of temptation. I don't consider indulging one's desire for pleasure to be inherently wrong anyway, but I don't imagine you'll hold that against me given my worldview.

To use a more universally-accepted example of "evil", let's take murder for instance. While few people would call murder anything more than terrible (and rightly so), the murderer still has a reason for the killing, no matter how flawed it is. Maybe the guy had his girlfriend stolen by some other dude. Maybe he's a soldier in Vietnam who's frustrated with all the VC posing as innocent housewives, and shoots up a whole village out of paranoia. My point is that people's emotions often getting the better of them, and cause them to forget about the consequences of their actions. To call something "evil" is an oversimplification which never does any justice to the act in question. Same goes with "good". Most people learn from an early age that helping each other makes life much more pleasant for everyone than screwing people over does. I don't know of any act of "goodness" which isn't an example of that lesson in action.

So that's how I explain good and evil. If you find this argument lacking in any way, feel free to point it out to me.

 

[Braighs]

Well... actually, it's not just God and Satan I don't believe in. I don't believe in good or evil either.

yeah that makes my argument more difficult

don't consider indulging one's desire for pleasure to be inherently wrong anyway, but I don't imagine you'll hold that against me given my worldview.

this confuses me. your worldview doesn't hold that against you (how convienient) I'll hold "indulging in pleasure" against anyone. This can lead to very annoying if not destructive behavior. of course, this depends on what your "pleasures" are .

While few people would call murder anything more than terrible (and rightly so), the murderer still has a reason for the killing

the Bible allocates space for this.

There is a time for everything,
and a season for every activity under heaven:
2 a time to be born and a time to die,
a time to plant and a time to uproot,
3 a time to kill and a time to heal,
a time to tear down and a time to build,

not sure about the context here, but it seems He does not judge based on actions only.
Uh, I've got to leave the library now. Hope this helped.

 

[Kenneth R.]

I find it so funny that christian follow the bible so passionately. I mean wasnt it written by a bunch of Romans a few hundred years after Jesus lived. And as we all know the Romans were corrupt as hell. So Im sure if some dude writing the old testament really liked pizza and felt that the whole world should only eat pizza, then Im sure he didnt think twice in adding that Jesus really loved pizza and felt that eating it was the way to heaven.

Christians follow the bible like its text that dropped out of the sky or was the personal journal oj Jesus.

actually, this is inaccurate.

there is a degree of truth in what you are saying (as i have already addressed above (see 'taking things literaly' & 'paul shuns metal hair'). however, the bible was not written by a bunch of romans a few hundred years after Jesus lived. it was written by people who experienced the chronicle of his life (those 12 who followed him and several others who were alive at his time) and shortly after. the Old Testament was passed down verbally and in print as well.

i think what you are referring to is what the romans, under constantine, ended up doing to the works that were publicly available. they censored and edited it. this much is history, however that does not mean the original is any less significant. it's fairly simple to see (as again, paul's personal agenda for example) where things were added.

a thinking individual should have no issue seperating truth from opinion in this and any text.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

this confuses me. your worldview doesn't hold that against you (how convienient) I'll hold "indulging in pleasure" against anyone. This can lead to very annoying if not destructive behavior. of course, this depends on what your "pleasures" are .

By pleasure I mean drinking, sex, etc. - you know, the usual objects of indulgence. I'd like to know how you can hold these against anyone, since they're really just lifestyle choices that don't have any direct effect on other people. The reason my worldview allows for indulgence in pleasure is because you can do that without hurting a single person (including yourself, assuming you're responsible). This would seem to make pleasure not an inherently evil thing.

the Bible allocates space for this.

Okay, I realize that morality in the Christian sense isn't just action based - that you can repent from your sins and get forgiveness. You still don't address the problems I point out with the notion of good and evil. Why do people need to be forgiven for "evil" when their actions have non-supernatural, real-world motives?

For that matter, how can you consider someone truly absolved of their guilt through penitence? Most of the time, if people screw up once, they're going to keep screwing up, regardless of how much they're forgiven. I think the patchy success rate of penitence kind of shows that it's not really addressing the problem of "evil" that it was meant to address. If someone really has some kind of mental or emotional instability that makes them "do wrong", then there's often very little that can be done to improve them. This seems to me like a good case for a naturalistic view of morality.

Uh, I've got to leave the library now. Hope this helped.

That's cool. Thanks for indulging my relentless argumentation thus far. I don't get to debate religion as much as I'd like, and you've been much more logical and patient than most opponents I've had in the past. I look forward to your next reply.

 

[in_absentia]

Yes, it is a faith. You believe it though because you have been told to, not because you believe it from within yourself. Society and your family have told you to believe it, but the fact is that you yourself do not know why you follow it. In years to come, I guarantee you will question it. And very strongly too.

Hubster, if only you see what i see. I have not been told to believe it. I am the ONLY Christian in my family. I was not raised as a Christian, i have only been one for about 5 or so years now. It is my decision to believe in what i do now, i have come too far to go back. I feel now as if i know the truth, and even if i wanted to deny it, i couldn't. I can't turn my back on the truth. i do not feel bound at all, if anything Christianity has helped me to get my life back on track, and out of habbits i never want to go back to. Come back to me in 10 years time, and i will feel exactly the same. 20 years, 50 years, whatever. I am not going to change my mind on this. This is fact.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

+1 for being a Christian without being raised one

 

[in_absentia]

Thanks . And i also believe that the Bible is interpreted in different ways. I believe to interpret it in whatever way i want to. Nobody can tell me this verse means this or this. It's the way in which i see it.

 

[all_sins_undone]

religion is reknowned for preying on the vulnerable. in_absentia needed support, and "jesus" offered it. it's just such a tragic thing that she's chosen to completely ignore her own thoughts of rationality and logic for the fake comfort that religion offers.

 

[Hubster]

Hubster, if only you see what i see. I have not been told to believe it. I am the ONLY Christian in my family. I was not raised as a Christian, i have only been one for about 5 or so years now. It is my decision to believe in what i do now, i have come too far to go back. I feel now as if i know the truth, and even if i wanted to deny it, i couldn't. I can't turn my back on the truth. i do not feel bound at all, if anything Christianity has helped me to get my life back on track, and out of habbits i never want to go back to. Come back to me in 10 years time, and i will feel exactly the same. 20 years, 50 years, whatever. I am not going to change my mind on this. This is fact.

Well, good for you for finding a faith to help your life. It's the faith itself which has steered you, not that blasphemous book. Admirable for you to take control of your life, but I pity the strain of faith.

religion is reknowned for preying on the vulnerable. in_absentia needed support, and "jesus" offered it. it's just such a tragic thing that she's chosen to completely ignore her own thoughts of rationality and logic for the fake comfort that religion offers.

I agree 100%. Having faith in something is ok, and I think a good thing, it provides a lot of positivity for people. However, I abhorently pity the faith she's chosen: she's too young to realise she has chosen to join one of the most destructive forces our civilisation has ever known.

 

[in_absentia]

I think that you guys have taken this a bit too far, and this has become way too personal. I do not appreciate you telling me that i am too young to make such a decision. To keep myself from saying anything further and getting banned or something again, i might cool off this forum for a few days. Hubster, KNOW that other people have different opinions to you. Stop offending those who think different to you.

And FTLOG somebody fucking lock this thread already, this thread has gone so off topic to the original topic, it's come to the point of ridicule.