Varg Vikernes committed suicide?

[zabu of nΩd]

There's a big difference between respectfully disagreeing with racists, and thinking that they are bad people. There are a great many people that I disagree with on many fronts, but I don't judge people by virtue of this. People are free to think what they want, and I'll always listen to opposing viewpoints. It's only people's actions that really matter to me. Hypocrisy in particular really irks me.

I think there's more to this than just beliefs. Sure, most racists won't actually go out and lynch a black guy, or Muslim, or Jew, etc; and most homophobes don't go around killing gays. That doesn't mean they don't necessarily support the actions of those who do. To a many of these people, when they hear about a prejudice-based murder, they just think to themselves, "Well, at least there's one less of those scum out there."

You seem to think beliefs mean nothing more than some abstract view about the world that has no bearing on someone's actions. If it's a belief about metaphysics, or economics, or some random philosophical question, sure. But beliefs that lead people to despise other people, or consider them worthless, are not just matters of "respectful disagreement".

 

[MasterOLightning]

You walked in circles and really explained nothing, rascism is not a respectable ideology, it is extremely lrrational and harmful, stfu

I hope you feel the same way about religion, it being even more irrational and harmful than racism.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

I hope you feel the same way about religion, it being even more irrational and harmful than racism.

No. Being religious is not the same as thinking of other humans as inferior.

 

[MasterOLightning]

I think there's more to this than just beliefs. Sure, most racists won't actually go out and lynch a black guy, or Muslim, or Jew, etc; and most homophobes don't go around killing gays. That doesn't mean they don't necessarily support the actions of those who do. To a many of these people, when they hear about a prejudice-based murder, they just think to themselves, "Well, at least there's one less of those scum out there."

You seem to think beliefs mean nothing more than some abstract view about the world that has no bearing on someone's actions. If it's a belief about metaphysics, or economics, or some random philosophical question, sure. But beliefs that lead people to despise other people, or consider them worthless, are not just matters of "respectful disagreement".

Are you saying then that it's okay to condemn beliefs that might make someone more inclined to do something harmful? Beliefs certainly have some bearing on peoples actions, but rarely do people consistently act in accordance with what they believe.

 

[MasterOLightning]

No. Being religious is not the same as thinking of other humans as inferior.

In some cases. So you think that people that refer to themselves as the "chosen ones" or the "elect" don't think they're superior to other people? How about those who claim to be a part of the "one true faith"?

 

[in_absentia]

Have we gone a little bit off topic or what? Anyways, i don't think this is true, as there have been many rumours over the years that he was dead. I hate to say it, but if it's not on Blabbermouth then i doubt that he is dead. Probably some bored guy was listening to Burzum thinking of how much he hated the music, therefore decided to start a rumour. Dunno, just a suggestion

 

[Crimson Velvet]

You walked in circles and really explained nothing, rascism is not a respectable ideology, it is extremely lrrational and harmful, stfu

Kinda like christianity.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

Are you saying then that it's okay to condemn beliefs that might make someone more inclined to do something harmful? Beliefs certainly have some bearing on peoples actions, but rarely do people consistently act in accordance with what they believe.

Well, I have no problem condemning racism. If you think less of someone just because they look different, or come from a different background, then you're an idiot.

And, generally speaking, I think if your belief makes you hate people for reasons which have nothing to do with the individual people, then you should adjust it. Just because you're afraid to act on your beliefs due to legal considerations doesn't mean your beliefs are okay.

In some cases. So you think that people that refer to themselves as the "chosen ones" or the "elect" don't think they're superior to other people? How about those who claim to be a part of the "one true faith"?

Of course there are bigoted religous people. However, you were equating religion with racism in level of bigotry, which is simply incorrect. I feel much safer making a blanket condemnation of racism than I do religion.

 

[in_absentia]

Um... no

Edit: @ Crimson Velvet

 

[i aint play this]

In some cases. So you think that people that refer to themselves as the "chosen ones" or the "elect" don't think they're superior to other people? How about those who claim to be a part of the "one true faith"?

i'm a fairly anti-religious person, it is harmful and stupid for the most part...but lets not forget that a lot of religious people are actually troubled(or even good) people trying to find comfort in their lives by believing in something, and if it stops their suffering, that is fine with me.
But now i ask you: what is the point of being a fucking racist? what kind of positive or wise thing will you get from it?

 

[i aint play this]

Kinda like christianity.

sure

 

[Justin S.]

Horrible, horrible, horrible thread. These last pages are so painful, so cringe inducing, its psychotically hilarious.

Lock this fucking disaster.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

Horrible, horrible, horrible thread. These last pages are so painful, so cringe inducing, its psychotically hilarious.

Meh, we needed to take the bickering beyond just the scope of Varg. How much is there to say about him, really?

 

[Justin S.]

Taking the discussion "beyond" is well and good. However, it helps to be able to read, have a clue about the topic at hand, and in general not be a fucking mouthbreather.

 

[Slayer101]

Originally posted by Crimson Velvet
Kinda like christianity.

Yes, christianity is exactly like racism.

 

[MasterOLightning]

i'm a fairly anti-religious person, it is harmful and stupid for the most part...but lets not forget that a lot of religious people are actually troubled(or even good) people trying to find comfort in their lives by believing in something, and if it stops their suffering, that is fine with me.
But now i ask you: what is the point of being a fucking racist? what kind of positive or wise thing will you get from it?

Actually there's not as much of a difference as you might think. I remember from a sociology class that a significant amount of KKK members joined because they wanted to be part of a social club. They thought it was cool to have a secret society. It was in many ways a safety blanket just like religion. The KKK is very much like a religious group. It has rituals, a sacred/profane division, all of Durkheim's ideas about what constitutes a religion, if I remember correctly. Durkheim said that one key role of religion is to envigorate people and give them some relief from their boring lives. The KKK serves this role precisely.

I've been playing devil's advocate to a degree in this thread. I don't feel nearly as passionately about this topic as the previous posts suggest. I was trying to see how well I could argue a point. I think most people these days grow up never considering the other side of an argument, or a minority opinion. People don't know why they believe in the things they do very often. With racism today, I imagine many people cringe at the sight of the word and throw a fit without giving any thought as to why someone might have those particular views, or how they try to justify them. These responses seem to come from the current efforts to promote multi-culturalism and egalitarianism, which I brought up indirectly. Apparently we're sure that racism is bad, but how do we feel about these other things? It's worth thinking about.

 

[Hubster]

Um... no

Edit: @ Crimson Velvet

Actually, yes.

Christianity like other organised religions endorses segregation, sexism, racism, homophobia and elitism among many other negative things.

The only decent things to come out of Christianity are art and music, and even then, those are not by-products of Christianity as they are by-products of the concept of faith itself, regardless of what it is faith towards.

Of all people, you as a young woman should not be endorsing Christianity as it gives NO WOMAN ALIVE an equal chance at anything. It promotes you as the weaker gender and the spawn of evil, and that alone makes the Church vile and disgusting in my opinion. Fuck the church.

Disagree with me? Go read the most fundamentalist text of all time, your Bible.

As far as I am concerned, only Pagan religions and Buddhism are worthy of respect as positive and real spiritual faiths. Fuck all the rest, they are practices of power abuse and nothing more.

 

[in_absentia]

.... Christianity to me is just a faith, something that i believe it. It does not bind me or limit me to doing anything. It's something that i believe in, i believe that there is something more out there, and i just so happen to believe in God. Yes, i have heard about all this crap Christians killing people etc. etc. and i don't have any other defence but that Christians are still humans, and humans, frankly, are stupid in some ways.

Art and music are indeed good things that have come from Christianity, and yes, they are by-products of faith itself, but where would the inspiration have come from in the 1st place?

I have read the Bible, and there are things that i agree and disagree with. I do agree that women should submit to their husbands, for example. But that is if only the husbands are asking for things appropriate.

The church is indeed, fucked up, i have learnt that from past experience, so i agree with you there. But there you go again with the Buddhism=yes, Christianity=no. It's WHAT i believe in. It's what i believe Jesus did when He lived.

 

[DirTh]

What do you mean when he lived, he didn't die a second time.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

Actually there's not as much of a difference as you might think. I remember from a sociology class that a significant amount of KKK members joined because they wanted to be part of a social club. They thought it was cool to have a secret society. It was in many ways a safety blanket just like religion. The KKK is very much like a religious group. It has rituals, a sacred/profane division, all of Durkheim's ideas about what constitutes a religion, if I remember correctly. Durkheim said that one key role of religion is to envigorate people and give them some relief from their boring lives. The KKK serves this role precisely.

I've been playing devil's advocate to a degree in this thread. I don't feel nearly as passionately about this topic as the previous posts suggest. I was trying to see how well I could argue a point. I think most people these days grow up never considering the other side of an argument, or a minority opinion. People don't know why they believe in the things they do very often. With racism today, I imagine many people cringe at the sight of the word and throw a fit without giving any thought as to why someone might have those particular views, or how they try to justify them. These responses seem to come from the current efforts to promote multi-culturalism and egalitarianism, which I brought up indirectly. Apparently we're sure that racism is bad, but how do we feel about these other things? It's worth thinking about.

Well, the KKK is not the main representative of all racism. Plenty of racists are racists just because they hate the race in question.

If you were just fishing for counter-arguments, good job doing it. I don't think the topic of racism is one that people simply don't think about, though. If there's anyone who doesn't think about it, I'd say it's the racists themselves. Of course, we have the sickeningly-PC white liberals too, so there is that. But to me, it's a pretty simple concept to not judge someone based on characteristics which have nothing to do with who they are as an individual. If you have some argument for why racism actually benefits anyone, feel free to present it. I'm willing to entertain the argument, even though I doubt it'll be a good one.